Education in Harry Potter

[MerryFlowrOfMay]

My apologies if this was covered on previous incarnations of this forum...I didn't read the Potter section before the crash. :o Shout me down if it's a dead topic.

I'd like to know your opinion on some things...

(Imagine you have children if you don't)

1. Would you like your children educated in a Hogwarts-style fashion (stuff like lots of hands-on, a hierarchy where students are responsible for other students, a flexibile rules system)?
1a. If you answered no, does the fact that Hogwarts is a boarding school have anything to do with your response? Would you like yoru children educated in a Hogwarts-style day school?

2. Does boarding vs. day change the Hogwarts experience? (I have never been to boarding school)

3. Is it possible to bring Hogwarts style education to the public school setting with larger numbers of students in classes, and a day environment?

Thanks!

[Fleur]

That is such a good topic!

I would say yes, if I ever had children I would send them to a school like that, partly because half the time (more like all the time) I find myself wishing that I did.

Unless they had a thing against going to a boarding school.

I think I would like going to a boarding school.. if it was cool like Hogwarts, which it wouldn't be. :(

[Bethel]

Excellent topic, Merf.

I think boarding school has its ups and downs. And I agree with Fleur--I personally (reading about Hogwarts) would have loved to attend boarding school (preferably one in an enchanted castle in Scotland!) The pros about boarding school are that it unifies students and teaches them discipline in a learning environment as well as a living environmemt. Students may develop more intimate freindships and learn to respect authority in ways they may never have in day school.

The downs about boarding school is that it often serves as a tool for parents to get their children out of their hair for a long period of time. Children may feel neglected by their parents if they hardly spend time with them and this could raise serious issues. However, the world of JKR doesn't really touch upon this. Some students stay at Hogwart's through Christmas and don't really seem to care much about missing out on holiday family time. This is why fantasy novels are so, so much better than reality! :D

Another down is that it may even encourage isolation from outside groups other than your own peers at the school. It may have an effect of closing out the world and the school may in turn swallow you up. :eek:

On the other hand, students can fall in love with a school they live at, wheras having to drive in everyday can make it feel more like a chore with only one means to an end. When you live at an institution, there is so much more to love about the place. On top of this, there is much more to learn outside the classroom. About people, their habits, cooperation, organization, being punctual, consideration, adaptation,... (basically just a lot of words ending in 'tion'! :p)

So, having said all this, if I ever have children, I would consider boarding school, but I would wait until they're at least of Hogwarts' age. And they would have to want to go. I wouldn't force them (well, maybe the first year just to see if they like it!)

To answer your second question, Merf: Does boarding school vs Day school change the Hogwarts experience? I would have to say yes, yes, and YES. Without the boarding experience, there would be no division of the four houses. Even if the students were divided into these 'teams' there would be less pride to be had in your team. The Quidditch matches wouldn't mean quite as much if your own house points weren't on the line. In addition, living at a school changes everything about the way you view your learning environment. Where you live is were you feel comfortable, in most cases, so living at school makes the school a comfort zone. You understand people and their differences much better, and you may develop more respect for authority as well as your peers. (Peers serving as prefects automatically puts you in a position obedience as well as cooperation and team work).

Living at Hogwarts appears to be a positive thing for the students. And I know it's a book sereis and all, but the students all seem to fear and respect authority a lot more than the kids I went to school with. :rolleyes:

These are all speculations, of course. I have done zero research for this, so trout me if you've gone to boarding school and have gotten nothing of the sort out of your experience! :p

[Sars]

Hmm... I would send my children to boarding school if they wanted to. But I would have reservations knowing that if they were getting bullied I wouldn't be able to spot it, but if I really thought that they had friends and were happy I wouldn't have problems.

Mind you, I wouldn't want to go myself. Knowing that if you didn't hand your homework in that day you couldn't just go home and be free, no watching the TV in private in your room and not really being able to get away from some people. Plus, I treasure my outside school social life.

[Bethel]

Yeah, I think if I ever went to boarding school I would have to request a single room. I couldn't stand minimal solitude!

And not being able to get away from certain people would be troublesome.. not to mention annoying.

Sars, you're ruining my little fantasy here! :mad: ;)

Well, even Harry finds certain people troublesome and annoying that he can't get away from, and he still seems to love the place, right?

[Seriphus]

Interesting topic Merfy.

In terms of boarding school if I had kids I don't think I'd want them to go. I'd want to spend as much time with them as possible, which I guess is a bit selfish. If they really desparately wanted to go then maybe. Of course some schools have weekday boarders who stay at school mon-fri and go home at weekends, which would be a good compromise.

Without the boarding experience, there would be no division of the four houses. Even if the students were divided into these 'teams' there would be less pride to be had in your team. The Quidditch matches wouldn't mean quite as much if your own house points weren't on the line.
At my school we had four houses despite being a day school. While I agree that we didn't show quite the same pride for our houses as shown at Hogwarts we still had house points and sports events to win and most people had pride in doing their bit for their house. It made school a bit more fun as well.


We also had prefects, and a good measure of hands-on learning. It's difficult to compare learning magic to learning maths and English etc, but I guess my school had a Hogwarts-style fashion of teaching and on the whole I enjoyed school and hope my children would get a similar education.

With regards to bringing Hogwarts style education to the public school setting a lot depends on how large large class sizes are. Certainly it would be difficult to have practical lessons if a class was difficult to control due to its size. I think you could incorporate houses, prefects and different rule systems, although I don't think it would be possible to totally incorporate the Hogwarts style.

Serphy

[Pilgrim Grey]

The thing is, JKR glosses over SO many aspects of school life, not to mention boarding school life, that it does seem ideal. But in reality, a school wouldn't be allowed to do a tenth of the stuff that happens at Hogwarts, and everything's very strictly monitored and ordered, like waking up times, lights out times, talking to people not in the dorm after lights out etc.

So, yeah, if such a place existed, it'd be great to go to school there. But it doesn't, it won't and it can't. Sorry to rain on the parade. :)

[Coimas]

i guess if i were a witch, then i would love to go to a school like Hogwarts. J.K Rowling makes this school sound spectacular, and the food can't be beat! :D

who wouldn't want to learn Transfuguration?!

[Sars]

Sars, you're ruining my little fantasy here!

It's what I do. :D And yes, not being able to have time to myself would kill me. I can't read when other people are in the room doing something else, and sometimes it's just nice to get away from everyone.

...

Without the boarding experience, there would be no division of the four houses. Even if the students were divided into these 'teams' there would be less pride to be had in your team. The Quidditch matches wouldn't mean quite as much if your own house points weren't on the line.

We've still got our four house system, admittedly they're trying to play it down, but it doesn't stop us. Competitiveness is part of human nature, I think they would still have pride in their houses.


...

One thing I would hate (personally) about going to Hogwarts (and I've tried to think of ways to get around it but I can't), you wouldn't have music. At least not your own, and that would drive me insane. Not being able to listen to my own bands and taste in music at all during any time except when I was sent home.

This is because, as book four hammered into our heads, no electronic device works in Hogwarts. So no CD player, and even if you did get one, no recharge or mains available. Admittedly, you might be able to get something in Diagon Alley that plays music magically, but would you be able to put Muggle music in it? And even if you could, a muggleborn would need to actively seek it out, and a shy eleven or twelve year old just starting would be too scared to look around this big new world just for something like that, even if they thought they could get it. And would they even know they would need it? On top of all of that you could never play your music aloud as it would disrupt the other students.


Sars looks up at the inane amount she has written

Oh, I like music, so what?

[Bethel]

Sars, I completely agree with you on the musical aspect! I'm a music freak and in addition to not being able to listen to your own music, you wouldn't be able to take music lessons. All I could think about today was how unfortunate it is that Hogwarts doesn't even have a choir. I would love to hear it!

[MerryFlowrOfMay]

Originally posted by Pilgrim Grey
The thing is, JKR glosses over SO many aspects of school life, not to mention boarding school life, that it does seem ideal. But in reality, a school wouldn't be allowed to do a tenth of the stuff that happens at Hogwarts, and everything's very strictly monitored and ordered, like waking up times, lights out times, talking to people not in the dorm after lights out etc.

Pilgrim Grey, you gave me the response I was hoping to get...:D

I studied education policy in college, and I had a professor who had some quite radical ideas for education reform that would make public schools in America unrecognizable. Some (not all though) of these can be reflected in Hogwarts.

So should schools be allowed to do what Hogwarts does?

BTW, thank you all for your comments on this thread...it has been fun to read. I will elaborate later when I am less tired. LOL

[Bethel]

I think Hogwarts has an exceptional education and boarding system because it takes place in a different world altogether. JKR certainly glosses over many aspects of 'reality' schooling. (It would make the books much more involved in a different respect if the whole thing was actually real!)

It's difficult to say whether non-wizarding schools, that is, every school in the world, should be allowed the same privileges as Hogwarts students. We're not magical like they are. And we're not quite as articulatly written to behave the way Hogwarts students do. We can't save ourselves from peril quite like they can, (nor do we even face the same peril, in most cases).

Basically people here may just be too uptight to know what else to do with the kids. Better safe than sorry, right? Teaching good study habits and appropriate ways of behaving are ways to raise responsible young adults. Hogwarts students have much less restricting them than most schools here do. More freedom is allowed them. Adults in our world think they must control students more than they need to be controlled, perhaps.

Merfy, this probably doesn't answer the question just yet but I've at least given my thoughts a run out. And it's 3 AM so my brain's a little .. tired!

[blah]

Don't know if anyone's mentioned this yet, but the Hogwarts pupils don't seem to be getting any english, maths or science lessons. I've just started the 4th book and still no sign of them. Wizards or no, they should really be suffering the way I did with comprehension questions and simultaneous equations.

[Fleurdelacour]

I think if the Hogwarts school system was the same as in other British schools, then everyone would be getting A*s in all subjects.

Our lessons are like a strict army thing. We have to sit in silence and copy questions of the board, unless we're in Art, English or DT, which suprise suprise, the school excells at (If I wasn't aloud to be "hands on" and creative as it were in art and English, then, I'd crack, that's why most people fail maths, its dull (in all parts, some people like it... But they're aliens! ;) )

But as a boarding school... I don't know. You'd be cramped up, like most other people said.

ALL people that go to British boarding schools as far as I know are snobs, and I wouldn't want a child of mine to go to a snobby school even if the education is better. You're got gonig to learn about your surroundings, the multicultarism of Britian... I'd much rather my child to go a local Primary school (I knew of parents who sent their kids to a Private Primary School and they kids turned out really weird and had no social life because the school pressured them into non-stop after school clubs (for things like piano lessons for a girl who wanted to be a accountant) maths clubs, things like that, and they gave the kids homework when they whre 4! Foru years of age and doing homework!

They became weird... and snobs. I hate snobs. I don't see why they couldn't send their kids to a normal school where they can mix with kids from different backgrounds, not just those toffs from Dulwich Village... :rolleyes:

It's the same with Secondary School. The best school/college in the whole of Britian is down my road, but I'd never go there, it's private (not boarding, but boarding schools are private with the exeption of Hogwarts ;) ) they're horrible snooty kids. I walked down to the park via the road it's on, and they just gave me the worst looks! I hate them so much. I'm worried it changed my friend from Primary School who went there, then he lost contact with me :(

Never mix with snobs. That's my greatest fear for my future kids. If they turn into snobs. It not as low as homophobia (which is the lowest in my opinion) but they can turn into racists, homophobics... If they dont have an outside enviroment with normal people...

Gosh I rambled on about crap....

[Fleur]

And computers. You wouldn't have the internet. Think how much faster things would get done in the magical world if they had the internet! It's ridiculous! They should invent some sort of magical equivalent.

That is true about boarding schools, Carrie, they do tend to produce very snobby people. Rodean school is near me, a boarding school and they look down on us. :( lol.

I think I am glad I went to a comprehensive. I couldn't STAND going to a girls school. Can you imagine?! You'd be a socially unaquiped to handle real life. Boarding school may have been good - I'm not really sure.

Because what if something really bad happened and the thing you wanted most was to talk to your mum about it or something. And what would you do at weekends? Just hang around the school? that would get very boring.

I think the reason Hogwarts works so well (even if it is fictional)is because of the magic. It wouldn't get boring, and there would always be that feeling that you were learning something really amazing, not just how to solve a quadratic equation.

[Niniel]

I been in boarding school for 4 years , a religious one...(sighing)
I was thinking on this subject before- how all conditions and especially flexible rule system can influence kids .
Well , I think that it couldn't have worked to make Hogwarts like, day school. couse what makes children behave like adults and being responsible is being all alone.

[Voronwe]

Originally posted by Fleur
I think I am glad I went to a comprehensive. I couldn't STAND going to a girls school. Can you imagine?! You'd be a socially unaquiped to handle real life.

Hey, I went to a girls' school, and I turned out fi...erm, never mind. ;)

Seriously, it's not as bad as all that, especially if you get involved in activities. Of course, I went to a coed school until I was in high school, but still, I don't think I have a problem dealing with guys because I went to a single-sex high school...

[Fleurdelacour]

I go to a girls school, but I was forced to. My mother thought I'd get all pregnant if I went to a mized school...

Didn't work for some girls. We had pregnant girls (they left).

All I can say is that we do concentrate on our work a bit more then in year six, because of our pre-teenage minds were trying to flirt with fellow year six boys (it didn't work) now I'm in my last year on Secondary school, and I am not flirting...

I wonder if the Hogwarts School system cut grades or not ;) Only Brits will know what I'ms aynig. They could take away NEWTS and replace when with something new! ;)

(I HATE THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT! I CANNOT DO MATHS UNTILI'M EIGHTEEN! HOW CAN THEY DO THAT! THE STUPID !!!!S! RUINNIG PEOPLE'S LIVES BY CUTTING THEIR BLOODY A-LEVEL GRADES!)

[Esgaroth]

Wow...speaking of education..I'm getting one just reading what y'all have to say about schools in Britain. I'm a mother myself, and while I send my child to private school (I have to pay extra out of the pocket for this...public schools here are those setup by the state government, and tax money is automatically taken out of our pockets whether our child goes to the public school or not.) I personally am not sure I would agree to send my child to a boarding school, especially when my daughter is so young, because even now when I take her every day, I still worry about how she is doing in class, and whether or not she is getting along with the other students. (These are things a Momma worries about!) As it turns out, my daughter *is* having some problems. I just wonder how much more difficult it would be if she were going to a school far away, and I wouldnt be able to help her out immediately and directly.

However, I often wonder if boarding school isnt a good idea for those in high school (that would be approx ages 14-18 here in the US). As a parent, I hold with strictness because young people are still learning to discipline themselves and understanding that withholding certain activities, shall we say, frees them up to establish a career and a foundation for a solid future. But a boarding school would give the young adult the independence they feel they need and without the emotional baggage of parents looking over their shoulder. I remember as a teen what a relief it was to be with adults who were NOT my parents. There were not the usual guilt trips and suspicions with people I did not live with.

Again, these are things *I* see on the other side of the fence. You have to know that parents for the most part only want to see their child happy and prosperous and able to become independent adults...and it upsets them greatly when obstacles are allowed to derail them.

Rothy gets off the podium, blushing bright red....

[Mellon]

Mellon :clap:s Rothy :)

I went to a girls' school from age 11 to 17 and I'm still able to talk to boys! I agree with Fleurd, though - if people are going to get pregnant they will regardless of who they go to school with.

Yeah, Hogwarts could replace NEWTS with a different system meaning that students have to do twice as many exams, work twice as hard and be twice as stressed, then find that the government and markers can't cope with that, and argue for a while about what they should do next...

Bitter? Me? Never!

Ahem.

To be slightly on topic, I agree with everyone else that's said that however much fun boarding school might look in books, it wouldn't be fun IRL. When I was little I used to read series of books about boarding schools and think that I'd really love to go there... then I thought about what it would actually be like living all the time with the people I went to school with <shiver> And I agree on the music thing too.