Harry Potter moves on: HP3 - SPOILERS

[Tiger Louie]

I don't know if it's just us in the UK that have had HP3 unleashed upon us today... It may be so, because we have a bank holiday.

~There didn't seem to be a thread, so with apologies, I thought I'd start one with my initial impression of the film.

Right from the beginning, the tone is much darker than the previous movies. I was full of anticipation for all the new characters... it's difficult to say whether they are what you imagined or not until you actually see them up there on the screen.

Overall, as well as there being a much, much darker tone, there is a lot of humour. For me the film works much better than the previous two, perhaps helped by the fact that it would be impossible to film as faithfully a much longer book.

All the key action is there, although somewhat compacted.

The Dementors were not at all as I imagined them - I didn't imagine them to fly, only to hover close to the ground. The way they feed on humans is brilliantly done.

The new cast members worked very well. Emma Thompson is very funny as Professor Trelawney. The scene which leads to Hermione leaves the Divination class isn't as in the book, but worked very well. I wanted to see more of Gary Oldman as Sirius Black, as I warmed to him more than I expected when he says goodbye to Harry before flying off on Buckbeak, I was fighting tears. David Thewlis is great as Lupin although I preferred the werewolf in Van Helsing - this werewolf was very man-like and not very wolf-like. Timothy Spall as Peter Pettigrew is under used, as the scene is much shorter than I imagined from the book. Michael Gambon is a very different Dumbledore - I would have liked to see more interaction with Harry though to make up my mind more.

The biggest cheer was when Hermione punches Malfoy! Biggest improver is Rupert Grint as Ron he's gurning less and getting the laughs from the lines instead thank goodness.

Buckbeak is brilliant, just as I imagined him. Fortunately we don't to see get any flobberworms. The Monster Book of Monsters is very furry and cute looking but causes quite a lot of damage. Unsurprisingly the one who comes off worst is Neville! The Marauder's Map is introduced by the Weasley twins intercepting an invisible Harry trying to leave Hogwarts. The map was much more complex than I thought it would be, but it had labels with people's names and footprints showing where they were moving, rather than having little figures like miniatures of the people the labels represent. Even though it was different, I thought it worked really well.

Overall, the film whizzed by for me! As it finished, I felt I'd been on a whirlwind ride along with Harry on his out of sequence present from Sirius. Roll on number 4!

[ChianaWeasley]

I'm soo excited!
And I just can't hide it!

[Flockman G5]

I just lost control...

...and I think I liked it.

[Tami of Ithilien]

Well done for starting a thread, Tiger :wave: I didn't want to because I really don't have a lot to say at the moment. As I've mentioned elsewhere (well, more than mentioned - had a right good moan!) I went to a showing that was full of small children and a complete nightmare. There was so much going on in the cinema (chatting, walking about etc) that I missed so much of the film :(

Anyway - what I saw I really liked. I felt it was much better paced than previous films, and seemed to whizz by. Lots of humour which had the audience laughing very loudly (and seemed to appeal to kids and adults equally). But also much darker - much more teenage angst and suggestions of troubles to come.

New characters - from pics I'd seen in advance I wasn't at all sure of Sirius and Lupin. Lupin turned out to be great - he didn't look how I'd imagined him but imo David Thewlis nailed the character. The scenes between Lupin and Harry worked well. Not too sure about the werewolf though.

I was less happy about Gary Oldman's Sirius Black, although he was better than I feared. Sirius is one of my favourite characters in the books, and the stills I'd seen didnt' fill me with confidence that Gary Oldman was up to scratch. He was much better than I'd expected, especially in the quieter scenes with Harry. I think the main problem I have is he's much smaller physically than the Sirius in my mind. I also see Sirius as quieter, darker and more brooding. GO's Sirius was a bit too manic for me at times. Overall though I'm not too disappointed with him, and can see the character developing well in the next film.

I felt the child actors all improved on their previous performances - both looking and sounding much older.

Quite a few changes in plot, esp regarding the order of events such as Harry receiving the firebolt at the end which will probably annoy those who like things to be exactly as they are in the book, but the film was improved by these changes imo. Much less pedestrian than previous films.

Think that's all I'll say for now as I don't want to give away spoilers. I intend to see it again, hopefully in a relatively child free cinema! By then I'm sure more people will have seen it.

[Tiger Louie]

Yeah, I was surprised at how slight Gary Oldman is. It's right for the character in a way - but given how tall Rupert Grint is now, and Daniel Radcliffe is still shorter than him, I was surprised that DR is nearly as tall as GO.

Personally, I've always imagined Sirius the dog as a cross between a sort of extra-large rottweiler and a newfoundland (if they're the black-coated ones).

Crookshanks is a great-looking cat - with plenty of purrsonality (sorry! :o).

I would have liked the story of how the friends became animagi to keep Lupin company when he transformed. That's probably the one bit I missed, it was a favourite of mine in the book.

Scenery is also breath-taking. Cuaron showed much more of the natural surroundings rather than purely the school and Hogsmeade, and this really worked for me. Everyone will have kept very fit running up and down hillsides, I think!

Tiger

[Fleurdelacour]

I saw the film yesterday afternoon and I was very impressed.

I had a few problems with it though...

The Marauders map wasn't at all how I imagined it... I always pictured it as a small square map... WITH CORRECT SPELLING.... MoonEy? Mooney? It's Moony! Honestly...

Right time for some spoiler tags with the whole Maruader fiasco...

I was really miffed that Remus didnt get his werewolf story and the whole Maruader story... I LOVE that... I was so happy they kept my favourite line in the entire books in though. "THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE DIED! DIED RATHER THEN BETRAY YOUR FRIENDS AS WE WOULD HAVE DONE FOR YOU!" Brilliant! Oldman and Thewlis pulled it off! I was delighted... Just delighted...

Shrieking Shack scene

I thought it was really rushed... I wanted more of Harry's hate for Sirius, then his slow realisation that it was Pettigew... I wanted an explaination as to why it was Pettigrew and not Black... Why wasn't there an explain for the Mauraders? That really got me...

Ron and Hermione moments

How ADORABLE! Chiana, you will cry tears of happiness! I squealed with delighed when Hermione grabs Ron's hand, and when she hugs him when hearing Buckbeak having his head "chopped off". And, I can't believe I nearly forgot! When Ron and Hermione were in Hogsmead by the Shreiking Shack Ron goes "Shall we get a bit closer..." Hermione looks a bit,y'know ;) "and Ron panics and says "... To the Shrieking Shack I mean!" Cuteness!

Remus and Sirius

As Snape said... Like an old married couple! :D That only adds to my belief that Remus and Sirus were genuienly in love...

I'm going to see it again tomorrow :p

[alqua]

Excuse me while I go and scream into a pillow, because I have to wait another two months before the movie's released here.

Now, having dared to look at the spoilers, I think the movie looks great. Of course it won't be perfect, but then, nothing really is. And those scenes between Ron and Hermione...I'll porbably be squealing in the theatre. :D

[Tami of Ithilien]

I didn't really miss the lack of explanation re the marauders to be honest. Not sure that it's necessary for the plot of the film. Although I'd need to see it again when I can concentrate on it properly to know for sure - I missed so much that maybe I just assumed that was something else I'd missed when my view was blocked by some delightful :rolleyes: toddler walking in front of me. I didn't notice the Moony mis-spelling - will look out for that next time!

I had a very quick read of PoA before I went to see the film and couldn't help thinking how un-filmable the book is, and how awful it would be if each scene was filmed as in the book. Also the book doesn't really a have a tight denouement like the previous 2, the last few chapters containing an awful lot of talk and explanation that's difficult to transfer to film. The Shrieking Shack scene didn't seem too rushed to me but I did miss a fair bit towards the end, so I might change my mind when I see it again.

I'm rambling now - sorry!

[Mormegil]

Originally posted by Fleurdelacour

Ron and Hermione moments

When Ron and Hermione were in Hogsmead by the Shreiking Shack Ron goes "Shall we get a bit closer..." Hermione looks a bit,y'know ;) "and Ron panics and says "... To the Shrieking Shack I mean!" Cuteness!



Wasn't that the other way round?

It's the best of the three in my opinion (though I only saw CoS on DVD).

As i've only read the book once I never really noticed if stuff was out of sequence and the only stuff I could remember from the book that I noticed (while watching) was missing was

More of the background information on the Marauders, ie that Lupin and James etc had created the map and that James' Patronis (sp) was a Stag

The special effects were far better than the previous two films with the weakest being the werewolf but even that was not bad.

[LuthienElentari]

I'm going to go see POA on Thursday at midnight......
From these reviews I'm really excited....
I trust your opinions and most of them were pretty positive.....
Now I'll I have to do is finish making my Ron/Hermione gear and find that pen so that I can be one of those freaks on the TV that write crazy things on thier faces like "HP3"

[Fleurdelacour]

Originally posted by Mormegil
Wasn't that the other way round?


Yeah I realised that when I saw it again today :o

Hermione is rather foward when trying to get Ron... ;)

[Peregrinning Took]

Will not read spoilers....Will not read spoilers.....I have to wait until tomorrow night (midnight! :D) to see it, it isn't released in the US till Friday.

Just a quick question - - how long is it exactly? IMDb lists it as being 136 mins, but I've seen reviews listing it as longer and as shorter.

[Tami of Ithilien]

PT - I think it's around 2 hrs 20 mins. Definitely shorter than the previous 2.

[Thunder*Bolt]

A better film than the last. Thoroughly enjoyed it although I didn't much like the actor (forgot his name) who played Dumbledor.


Best creature in the in the film is Buckbeak. I'm rather partial to anything that looks splendid & flies.




:D

[Elwen]

I have just seen PoA... I liked it much better than the last two.... I think I have learned to understand a little bit about the problems of adapting loived books for the screen - this is not as close to the book and therefore much better paced.

I think it is also good that a lot that isn't directly involved with the main drift of the story got cut. This film flows well.


And it LOOKS so much better! Stunning stuff - the landscape around Hogwarts is great! (and full of things like standing stones... :D who taught them the value of the odd monument in the landscape? ;) )

I LOVE some of the scene transitions - very innovative, and I like that the seasons are used in such a clever way. And the way the school clock plays something of a role in the background. A great visual symbol for what is going on. :)

And the credits... and so much more. This film LOOKS good (although - did the Dursleys move to a totally new house? Their new house looks almost not like a parody, although it fits their social class a bit better).

The acting is pretty good as well. I was quite happy about Radcliffe. Not bad at all. I now believe that he should be able to pull off number five (was this Harry much more angry than I remember him from book III?) For some reason I keep being reminded of Elijah Wood when I look at and listen to Radcliffe. Is this just me being weird or do other people see this as well?


Watson is quite good as well, although I really don 't care much about Grint's acting.


Thewlis is great - just perfect. I really did not imagine this at all. Perhaps the only one in the film who manages to hold his own against the brilliant (and a bit underused) Rickman.

And I liked Oldman. Again, I didn't believe that this would work but it does! Really brilliant! I love his Sirius and I was really sad when he had to leave.


All in all, good stuff. A real improvement. :)

Elwen

[xKatiexBellx]

:clap!!! Thank you!!!!!!!!! This makes me so eager to see it!! Luckily it comes out tomorrow! It sounds much more convincing than the last two. PS and CoS were pathetic!

[Tiger Louie]

I am almost sorry Cuarón isn't in the Director's chair for #4, having seen this. As a native of Northumberland, I was saddened originally hearing that the whole film was being relocated to the Highlands of Scotland. Having seen the end result, I can only applaud the decision. That said, I think that Cuarón could probably have made much more of the natural beauty of my home area...!

All of you who haven't seen it, I hope you pick up on many of the things which Elwen has mentioned. I didn't put them in my review, but I saw and appreciated them as well!

Tiger

[Tami of Ithilien]

Well I saw it again last night, minus the gaggle of toddlers that marred my first viewing, and it was like seeing a totally different film. There were whole scenes I had no recollection of seeing first time round!

I really appreciated the landscape and the way Cuaron used it in the film. Loved the leaves etc dancing around (and the whole flying 'theme'), and the whomping willow was great. As Elwen points out - the school clock was a great way of bringing out the time theme that runs through the book. This felt more like a film than either of the other 2, which always feel to me like a sequence of scenes that don't really flow together. It felt a little rushed at times, but not too much so, and tbh I think I prefer that to the pedestrian pace of the first 2 films.

Still thought Lupin was great and still feel a little unsure, but mostly positive, about Sirius. I had a lump in my throat during the scenes between Sirius and Harry - esp. when Sirius was leaving and told Harry that people who love us never really leave us. Difficult not to think ahead to book 5 there!

Who is going to be directing #4 then? I didn't know Cuaron was only doing the one. Shame that.

[Thunder*Bolt]

Originally posted by Tiger Louie
As a native of Northumberland, I was saddened originally hearing that the whole film was being relocated to the Highlands of Scotland.

Tiger


Oh thanks for that tip bit. I didn't read up on where it was filmed etc & was rather confused as to the locations of some of the places at the school, like Hagrid's home for example. :)

[Fleurdelacour]

Oh... The scenery was just beautiful :) It reminded me of the mountains of county Wicklow in Ireland where I spent a lot of my childhood... Those sloping green hills set against a stormy grey sky!

[Tiger Louie]

Originally posted by Tami of Ithilien
Who is going to be directing #4 then? I didn't know Cuaron was only doing the one. Shame that.

Mike (Four Weddings and a Funeral) Newell is in the hotseat for #4! They are already at work on the film, I believe!

Tiger

[Peregrinning Took]

Originally posted by Tami of Ithilien
Who is going to be directing #4 then? I didn't know Cuaron was only doing the one. Shame that.

It's gonna be Mike Newell, who directed "Four Weddings and a Funeral".

Well, I saw this at a midnight show last night. I thought it was really good, and very funny, except I was really bummed about the complete lack of explanation i.e. why Sirius, James, and Pettigrew became Animagi, the Fidelius Charm, how Sirius escaped from Azkaban, the Shrieking Shack, how James saved Snape's life (then again, that wasn't mentioned in the first movie either). I also thought that Harry seemed a bit too trusting of Sirius at first - - I would have liked to see a much much much longer Shrieking Shack scene, with Remus and Sirius explaining everything and letting it sink in before making Pettigrew transform, as was done in the book.

I was very sad that they didn't have Pig in the movie - - I was looking forward to seeing the little guy zooming around! :D

Another thing that annoyed me was you didn't get to see the after-effects of Sirius escaping. It didn't seem like anyone cared.

Rupert, Emma, and Daniel's acting is wonderful now. :notworthy And Lupin's moustache didn't annoy me as much as I thought it would, and I loved Sirius Black.

All in all, I really wish that they would have expanded a lot more, but other than that it was wonderful. It's definitely a movie more for book people, though.

[Princess Aurora]

Wheee! Saw it last night at the midnight showing on the IMAX. I really don't know if I can see it on a regular screen now, I'm spoiled! :D

Only one really big complaint:
Why didn't they explain the Marauder's Map????? There was no reason not to, and it would have added so much, especially to people who haven't read it! Like, how come Lupin and Sirius knew how to work it? As Harry watched Lupin leaving his office, I kept expecting him to say, "Sorry, sir, but how did you know...?" and was sorely disappointed when it didn't happen. It's such an integral part to the book, and would have taken only a few minutes to include. I was really floored that it wasn't included!

A couple other little things:
Shrieking Shack scene was much too short. And the absence of winning the Quidditch cup. :( That was one of my favorite scenes. But I understand why he couldn't include it. Also, the scene where Harry gets the Firebolt seemed a bit odd tacked on the end like that, but I also understand that decision, and I think it works fine.

Overall, I really enjoyed it, and I think Cuaron was an excellent choice for this film. The feel of the film was much better than the other two... much less "cutesy", more dark, and the special effects were quite impressive. I also loved the added humor...

Harry reading the Marauder's Map to Snape was a good moment. :D

Also, when Hermione and Harry are back in time, and Hermione's looking at herself, and she goes, "Does my hair REALLY look like that from the back??" I found that very amusing, because that is EXACTLY what a girl would say in that situation! ;)

Also liked that this film seems to have more character development, which was missing from the other two.

The scenes with Harry and Lupin are fantastic. I especially like the scene when Lupin is talking about Harry's parents, and we see Harry's facial expressions as he's hearing more about them from someone who knew them well. It's very poignant, I think.

Also, the scene in the boys' dormitory was a welcome surprise! Didn't have anything to do with the story, but it was a great character scene. Really showed what boys their age would be like.

All right, this is long enough. :p I've gotta see it again, now that I know what's in and what's out, I'll be able to enjoy it even more.

[LuthienElentari]

I have seen Prisoner of Azkaban. I saw it last night at midnight. I'm speechless and amazed. Not only did this film meet up to my expectations but went beyond them. I have never imagined that a Harry Potter film could be as brilliant as this film. I'm shocked beyond belief at the film and I want to go see it again!

Film Pros

Ron and Hermione Momments

*squeals* I loved the little momments in the film. I shouted when they held hands in the Hippogriff scene. Everyone started laughing and staring at me. And the part when they watch Buckbeaks death.......*thanks Afonso* that whole Hermione/Ron think was so sweet!

Acting

The acting in this film was a lot better then the first two films. They have grown into their characters and it shows on screen. Although I'm anti-Daniel Radcliffe after watching this film I had a higher opinion of him. His acting has improved dramatically. I was also pleased with Emma. I don't like Emma Watson but I thought she did a worthy-Hermione performance. *claps*

Sirius Black

As soon as Sirius entered the Shrieking Shack I immediantly was pleased. He looked and felt like Sirius. Although I pictured him completely differently I loved his portrayal of the character. The scene with Harry and Sirius at the lake with the dementors was amazing! an oscar worthy scene. He was simply brilliant.

The Script

I loved the dialouge in this film. It was hilarious. The scene with Ron and the spider dream was so clever and funny! The writing had everything a great script needs- Funny witty lines, sweet and enduring lines, spine-chilling lines and the sorta-sappy lines about death, life and being happy.

Cons

Harry/Hermione?
As most of you already know I'm a die hard Ron/Hermione shipper and it kind of pissed me off when I realized that Daniel and Emma have more chemistry then Rupurt and Emma. You could sense some chemistry between the two of them and that made me pist.Especially during that time-turner scene

Werewolf

In my opinion the werewolf looked more like a mutant then a wolf

Otherwise I loved it! and I can't wait to see it again!

[Princess Aurora]

Anti-Daniel Radcliffe??? :eek:

I am so in love with him after this film. Whoever thought anybody could look so good in doofy glasses? :D

I forgot to mention one of my favorite scenes:
The Boggart scene! I thought it was really well-done. I especially liked when Lupin turns on that music! :D It was such a fun little touch, trying to get the students to be a little more at ease in facing their fears.

Also, in an interview with J.K. Rowling (in which she said she really likes the way Cuaron did this film, btw), she said that Cuaron foreshadows some things from books 6 and 7 without knowing it. Any ideas what those might be?

I think one might have to do with when Lupin is talking about Harry's parents, and he says, "you're more like them than you know, Harry. In time you'll come to see just how much."

[ChianaWeasley]

I've just seen it! It was absolutely superb!

Loved all the improvements in the acting skills, Dan was much better, he's come so far since the first film.

And Ron was simply perfect, he's falling more into his character.

Hermione, she was definately in the 'shut-up and listen to me!' but not to the point of annoying.

I'm very happy with what I saw

AND

there was even #$%^&#$%^!!!!!!!

:beer:

[Colli]

*skims in a modly manner*

Ahhhh ok. No more Muggle Informer for me until I see it tonight. :) Thank you all for behaving and making my job easy :)

[Peregrinning Took]

Originally posted by Princess Aurora
Only one really big complaint:
Why didn't they explain the Marauder's Map????? There was no reason not to, and it would have added so much, especially to people who haven't read it! Like, how come Lupin and Sirius knew how to work it? As Harry watched Lupin leaving his office, I kept expecting him to say, "Sorry, sir, but how did you know...?" and was sorely disappointed when it didn't happen. It's such an integral part to the book, and would have taken only a few minutes to include. I was really floored that it wasn't included!

:eek: I thought the same exact thing! I expected Lupin to start to leave, then Harry to glance at the map then look back after Lupin and say, "Sorry, sir, but...how did you know about the map?" Then for Lupin to say, with a grin and a twinkle in his eye, "Haven't you guessed, Harry? I'm Moony." Then for Harry to glance back at the names, Moony, Wormtail, and Padfoot, and get a little mental image of the werewolf, the rat, and the dog; then to look at Prongs and get a flashback of the stag out by the lake.

Originally posted by Princess Aurora
Also, in an interview with J.K. Rowling (in which she said she really likes the way Cuaron did this film, btw), she said that Cuaron foreshadows some things from books 6 and 7 without knowing it. Any ideas what those might be?

I think one might have to do with when Lupin is talking about Harry's parents, and he says,
"you're more like them than you know, Harry. In time you'll come to see just how much."

Stop reading my mind, Princess Aurora! I read that same interview, and I thought that exact same thing! :eek: *screams and runs away*

[LuthienElentari]

Favorite Scenes In POA

-All Ron and Hermione implied romance scenes were top on my list: Holding hands, fight scenes, snippy comments about Hermione being mental, Hermione leaning on Ron when she's in panic about Buckbeak, Ron grabs Hermione's jacket when he's nervous in the Shrieking shack, and lots more awkwardness.

-I loved the scene where Ron wakes up in the middle of the night, talking about his spider dream to Harry; half delirious.

-I loved the scene where Harry and Hermione go back in time to save Sirius and Buckbeak. That whole sequence was amazing. I love the way they tied in events that happened previously before and tied them into the future.

- I loved the whole scene with Sirius and Harry by the lake with the dementors crowding around them. The dementors were taking turns sucking out the joy in them and I was in awe at how perfect the performance was the special effects the emotion and the music was perfect. This is the point in the story where you realize Harry does have weaknesses; he's not that strong.

-I loved that small moment where Hermione is reaching for the invisibility cloak.

-The scene with the boys in the dormitory; making the animal noises was something so realistic that I just rolled my eyes. It was really funny too and Rupurt Grint was so hot in that scene, it was perfect.

-I loved the fact that throughout the film whenever the dementors came out everything froze. Everything was cold. I loved the symbolism behind it. Something so simple was so incredibly spine shivering. I was literally hyperventilating.

-Luthien

[Peregrinning Took]

I've just had my crazy theory of the day, having to do with the foreshadowing of books 6 & 7.

Maybe Remus and Lily had gone out with each other back at Hogwarts, and that's what Remus was talking about when in the movie he said that Harry's mother had been there for him during one of his most difficult times. Perhaps Young Remus was fed up with his classmates taunting him about having to leave mysteriously once a month ("Oh, your mum's sick again, is she?" *smirk, smirk*), and he broke down and told Lily, who James had been chasing. Lily made him feel better about his situation by showing that his friends wouldn't care about him being a werewolf, but James got jealous of the amount of time Lily and Remus were spending together. So James gets annoyed at Lily and she gets so pissed at him that she tells him one of his best friends is a werewolf, and he was such an insensitive jerk that Remus didn't even want to tell him - - then James tells Sirius and Pettigrew and they confront Remus and they all decide to become Animagi to prove that they really do care...This theory would also explains a bit more Remus's actions in Snape's Worst Memory. Maybe he really did want to help Lily make James stop tormenting Snape, but he didn't want to seem like *too* much of a nice guy. Otherwise, Lily might start thinking "My, that Remus http://www.council-of-elrond.com/forums/images/smilies/flirt2.gif," and Remus cared about James's feelings about Lily enough to back off and the rest is history.

Er, that may be a bit too far-fetched, though. :o I sound like I'm writing a fan fiction.

[ChianaWeasley]

Rupert Grint.
Oh! And Neville has grown up!!!!He reminds me of someone I go to school with!!!
But the boys eating the candy, that's definately what me and my guy friends would do at hogwarts.:p
My favorite parts....

-Ron & Hermione and all the "un-implied" implications ;)
-Harry when he's shouting about Sirius betraying his parents

AND, what did I tell you?!?

Wasn't David Thewlis brilliant? I told you he would be superb as Lupin....not that I'm an 'I told you so' kinda of gal
;)

[Princess Aurora]

Mwahaha.. sorry to get into your brain like that, PT. ;)



Yep, I loved the scene where Ron's having the spider dream... "You tell those spiders, Ron." :D The humor in this film is great!

Also, I loved how Hermione kept calling him "Ronald." :D

[Fleurdelacour]

Originally posted by Peregrinning Took
I've just had my crazy theory of the day, having to do with the foreshadowing of books 6 & 7.

Maybe Remus and Lily had gone out with each other back at Hogwarts, and that's what Remus was talking about when in the movie he said that Harry's mother had been there for him during one of his most difficult times. Perhaps Young Remus was fed up with his classmates taunting him about having to leave mysteriously once a month ("Oh, your mum's sick again, is she?" *smirk, smirk*), and he broke down and told Lily, who James had been chasing. Lily made him feel better about his situation by showing that his friends wouldn't care about him being a werewolf, but James got jealous of the amount of time Lily and Remus were spending together. So James gets annoyed at Lily and she gets so pissed at him that she tells him one of his best friends is a werewolf, and he was such an insensitive jerk that Remus didn't even want to tell him - - then James tells Sirius and Pettigrew and they confront Remus and they all decide to become Animagi to prove that they really do care...This theory would also explains a bit more Remus's actions in Snape's Worst Memory. Maybe he really did want to help Lily make James stop tormenting Snape, but he didn't want to seem like *too* much of a nice guy. Otherwise, Lily might start thinking "My, that Remus http://www.council-of-elrond.com/forums/images/smilies/flirt2.gif," and Remus cared about James's feelings about Lily enough to back off and the rest is history.

Er, that may be a bit too far-fetched, though. :o I sound like I'm writing a fan fiction.

I actualy thought Remus was referring to Snape, and Snape being the beauty inside of him. Or maybe it could have been Snape and Remus.

I have to disagree with you on the Lily/Remus thing though. I'm a firm Remus/Sirius shipper and some parts of the film only confirmed my suspisions :p

I also thought the same as PA and PT with Remus turning around and telling Harry about the Map...

[ChianaWeasley]

I really felt the emotion from the pages of the book come out in the film when;

-Sirius yells that he has waited twelve years, and he would wait no longer

-Harry yells that sirius was his parents friend, and he had betrayed them

-Lupin is telling Harry of his mother and what a kind person she was

-When hagrid tells them Buckbeak has been sentanced to death

The new director really did get the book down emotionally in some many spots, it pleased me to see it for once in these films.

:)

[lizz]

I´ve seen, I loved it :clap:

what a pity cuaron is only doing this one.

It was funny and it was dark, captured the spirit of the book. Brilliant :notworthy

I loved it how everything froze when the Dementors were near.

[Mirdan]

stayed up all night so that i can see the midnight show for PoA... and it was all worth it!

where do i even begin? i like just about everything in the film! the fast camera movements, the dark color palette of the scenes, the improvement in the dialogue... and the acting was very impressive! i especially loved the transitional scenes. very nicely done, and very poetic (i.e., when Hedwig flies across the scene in one shot into s light snow frame, then finally towards a snowy Hogwarts castle scene... implies the passage of time without all the unnecessary use of extra scenes :swoon: )

i didn't really have any opinion on David Thewlis, but after this movie, i'm glad that he was cast as Lupin! and for any of the Remus/Sirius shippers out there, this movie is just for you!

*cough*ShriekingShack*cough

;)

anyways, funny moments - there's a lot! i'll list a few of them...

Snape according to Lupin:
did anyone else catch the little comment that Lupin made about Snape when Neville was up against the Boggart? i can't remember the exact wording, but Neville told Lupin he was afraid of Snape, Lupin said something along the lines of "vampire fangs..." the second i hear Lupin mumble that, i was floored! it almost seemed like a reference to what some of the fans have been saying about Snape all this time! :LOL:

Gred and Forge:
as if they were one entity... i still think the scene in the book was funnier, but the Weasley twins in the movie were hilarious when they were telling Harry how to use the Marauder's Map. finishing off each other's sentence like it was the most natural thing in the word... it was great!

flighty birds, bad-tempered trees, and mad dogs:
when Buckbeak attacked Lupin in his werewolf form... i know it wasn't suppose to be funny, but Harry's little comment about Professor Lupin having a bad night made it funny! it was bad enough that everyone was having a bad night, but Lupin seemed to be having the worst time of all :D

the Whomping Willow seemed to have moved on its own volition from the courtyard scene in the CoS to the outside grounds of the castle, but still! that tree by itself was funny in a creepy-sort of way! anyone also notice that little bird that got smashed by the Whomping Willow? the scene looked so idyllic, with the nice camera view of the tree and the castle, and then this poor little unsuspecting bird flies in to perch on the Whomping Willow to complete this picturesque scene... only to be squashed by the Whomping Willow! didn't see that coming...

and of course, Ron and his dream: need i say more?! ;)

there are tons more of those little things in the movie. i guess this means a second viewing is in order :D

some little nitpicky things... the actor who plays Neville lost his baby fat! he's not as pudgy as i imagined Neville to actually look. no biggie, really, it's just that i thought Neville wouldn't look that thin :shrug:

by the way, anyone ever get that fleeting feeling that movie Lupin sounded like he was in love with Harry's mother?! i think it's just me, but the way he was describing how Lily was to Harry... one would think he was in love with her! :p

yep... i think it's just me alright :D

[lizz]

like a reference to what some of the fans have been saying

Well put Mirdan, thats what I´ve been thinking about the married couple comment, but I didnt express it that well.:)

As for Remus in love with Lily, yes I defintily think so. the way he takled about her, much more affection than when he talked about James

[Peregrinning Took]

Actually, when Remus was talking about Lily and James....I kind of thought he was referring to how they acted in Snape's Worst Memory. Lily was kind, James was a magnet for trouble.

Things like that make me wish that they had waited until all seven books were published until making the films. :( We didn't have Mrs. Figg in the first one, so they'll have to introduce her as a whole new character in the fifth one. I wonder what other little things they left out that will become important?

[Lord Schaudt]

Nah i think that he loved her like he loved james, but becuase james had a abrasive personality his love for him wasn't so pure.

[Tiger Louie]

The films work on a different level if you've read the books. If you've read all 5, then you are definitely several steps ahead of the uninitiated in the audience.

I loved the way Harry and Ron were constantly surprised by Hermione appearing in lessons - another thing to watch out for on a second viewing!

Even with the change of pace and atmosphere in this film compared with the previous two, I love the fact that we are still building up this picture of what Lily and James are like - adding more detail from different perspectives of those who knew them.

One of the most unique things about Prisoner of Azkaban in the series of books so far is the fact that it's the only one without a show-down between Harry and Voldemort. This may be why it's so many people's favourite of the books. Even without YKW, we keep getting more and more detail about exactly how Harry's parents died at Voldemort's hands.

We are going to have to wait til film #5 to get more Lupin :( perhaps then they may give some kind of explanation of his affection for his schoolfriends. That is going to be VERY difficult!

Tiger

[ChianaWeasley]

With Lupin....
The way they had him describe Lily....it wasn't as if he were in love with her so much, but she was the only one out of his close circle of friends who really came to understand and except him for what he had become. Almost as if James couldn't come to except him as a wereman
Rather sad really, and perhaps contradicts the book...

[Tiger Louie]

Lose not hope, Chiana. Steven Kloves works very closely with JKR on the scripts for the films, and I am confident she wouldn't let them put in anything which screws things up for future films.

I think it's increasingly clear from the books we have had so far that the friendships that Lupin made at school were extremely important to him, and he would do nothing to jeopardise those friendships. It may be that there are qualities which Lily appreciated in Lupin which were different from the qualities James appreciated in him. I certainly think so.

I'm just looking forward to seeing the film a second time, so I can appreciate all over again what a fantastic job Cuarón has made of bringing the book to life. Sure there are quite a few things which aren't explained as they are in the book... but maybe that'll get the confused non-reader to take a look-see at the book. I can certainly live with those things which are left up in the air.

Tiger

[Colli]

Muahahahaha Mirdan! I didn't even notice that. Snape is. He is. Hints about book 6 and 7, you know? That's such a minor detail in the book, it made it into the movie for a reason.

:Colli jumps back into Snape-vampire theory:


Ok. So I really did give Thewlis a chance. I really did. But every single time he opened his mouth, I thought "Why on earth is that strange looking man saying Lupin's lines?"

I enjoyed the movie for movie's sake. It was a good adaptation of the book.

I'll just stick to reading the books. :) I can't stand it when my favorite lines/scenes are left out, or when my characters are messed up, or when scenes are too rushed... I'll just read the books. :)

It was much better than the first two, the effects were great (minus the werewolf), etc etc etc :).

OH! And I was sitting in the theater watching the Quidditch match, and a few seconds after Harry fell I suddenly gasped and said "Oh! That was Cedric, wasn't it?"

Wish I would have gotten a closer look.

(edit)
The exchange between Harry and Ron when Ron was having the nightmare is my FAVORITE part.

Too rushed.

Wish the connection had been made between Trelawney's prediction and Pettigrew escaping....

[Kristin]

I finally saw it (yeah, a day later than most people). :)

My reactions:
- I loved the candy scene at the beginning. Even though it wasn't from the books, it was so true to the spirit of the books.

- David Thewlis. I liked him. I thought he was quite good. I still hate that moustache, though.

- Gary Oldman. I really liked him. He still doesn't look how I pictured Sirius. But his acting totally won me over. I thought he was fantastic.

- Ron's nightmare. Heehee! :D

I'm completely with PA on what bugged me the most.
How hard would it have been to have a two line exchange? "You know it's a map?" "Of course I know it's a map. I helped write it."
That's one of my favorite bits in the whole series. I kept expecting it, and it never came. :(

The Firebolt thing didn't really bug me because I didn't even think about it until the end.


I'd say CoS is still my favorite movie of the bunch (thanks in large part to Kenneth Branagh and Jason Isaacs).

Honestly, it was going to be hard for me to really like this movie. PoA is far and away my favorite book in the series, so the movie had more to live up to. Specifically, the Shrieking Shack chapters are my favorite chapters in the entire series. They could completely change the rest of the book as long as they got the Shrieking Shack scene right. Unfortunately, they didn't. :(

[Fleurdelacour]

The werewolf looked like a hairless monkey....

[ChianaWeasley]

I was impressed with the werewolf actually, it was different from the stereotyped werewolf. But I admit a bit odd looking.

And I'm glad I'm not the only one who was frustrated that Lupin never came out and said he was Padfoot

[BT Shire]

Originally posted by ChianaWeasley
I was impressed with the werewolf actually, it was different from the stereotyped werewolf. But I admit a bit odd looking.

And I'm glad I'm not the only one who was frustrated that Lupin never came out and said he was Padfoot

I liked how the werewolf looked. In fact, I was impressed by all the special effects in the film. Overall, I think it was very well done. And I enjoyed the darker tone this movie had. Of course, the books keep getting darker as they go along, so I expect the same of the films.

[Princess Aurora]

Lupin wasn't Padfoot. Sirius was. :D




I remember seeing previews for PoA and thinking, "What the? THAT'S a werewolf??" But after a while it's grown on me. For some reason, I really liked the slide Snape had of the Werewolf, a la Leonardo Da Vinci's man thing (yes, I'm so scholarly, I know). And I kinda liked that it wasn't the stereotypical werewolf...

[Tiger Louie]

Given that we have had so many different interpretations of werewolves in films over the years, and this year we have had the super-hairy variety in Van Helsing, it was inevitable that people will have quite strong expectations about what a werewolf will look like when transformed. As these are (we hope) purely fantasy creations, that gives the designer a great deal of creative licence, but also a lot of responsibility to match or exceed the audience's expectations.

Personally, the fact that the creature was clearly more human-shaped than wolf-shaped was something I wasn't expecting. I thought it was very ugly, but not inappropriate, I suppose. I think I've already said the dog wasn't at all what I imagined it would be, but then I have never yet seen a CGI dog I thought was well done. I think they would have been better to use computer enhancement of a real dog, but that's possibly just me and my feeling that Padfoot is like a very large, very black Rottweiler/Newfoundland cross-breed.

Tiger

[alqua]

I've finally seen the film and I really loved it. Despite some changes and omissions, I think the spirit of the book was extremely well captured this time, and there were scenes that actually gave me the goosebumps. Another thing I liked was the improvement in Dan's acting. I think this was the first time I actually saw Harry and not just a boy trying to get through his lines.

I loved the little scenes between Ron and Hermione. And I'm definitely joining whatever club says that Lupin was in love with Lily :D
...And Trelawney's prophecy: I actually jumped at that scene. I knew it had to be coming, but the suddenness really caught me off guard.

I can now forget about PS and CoS, and hope that the next movie can live up to PoA.

[SnItCh]

All in all I thought the movie was good.
I was a little disappointed in the changes to the set, the grounds, the school. Since when is Hagrid's Hut down and embakment???


Also.....
I really wanted them to tell the story of the map, how it came to be and then the story of Moony, padfoot, prongs and wormtail!!!

[berennluthien]

I really loved this movie! It is my favorite of the books and overall I was very pleased with it.

A couple things I missed that were not in the film:

Harry telling Dumbledore about Trelawney's prediction, and Dumbledore saying he should give her a raise.

And Harry telling his uncle about his godfather, an accused murderer escaped from Wizard prison

Those were two of my favorite scenes in the book!

Also, I don't recall the vampire comment, I thought Lupin had simply muttered some joke like "we're all a little scared of Snape." But I could have heard wrong?

[Kristin]

That's what I heard, too, berennluthien.

Here's something that I thought was strange:
In the book, Lupin talks about how when his friends were with him, he was more himself and they were able to keep him in check. And they had so much fun, etc.

In the movie, that doesn't seem possible. And I don't know if that's just how the movie portrayed it or a flaw in the book. Because it's hard to imagine a werewolf casually walking around Hogwarts and Hogsmeade and having fun (even if a dog and a stag were keeping him from attacking anybody).


Oh, and what was up with Goyle? He was in the movie, but he was replaced in the Shrieking Shack scene (with invisible Harry) by someone else. :confused:

[SnItCh]

Kristin, I noticed the "Goyle Change" too! Thought that was just a bit strange!:confused:

[Colli]

The Goyle change really threw me off..

I liked the changes in the set... they were more realistic.. less fairy-land, and I thought Hagrid's hut WAS down an embankment (in the book)? Maybe that's just the impression I got. In particular, I'm thinking of the dragon-arrival scene in GoF.

I think I have enough things to watch for, now, that I need to see it again. :)

[berennluthien]

Regarding the Goyle change....

How weird was that?!?!

I did notice, however, that in the scenes which contained Malfoy, Crabbe and the original Goyle, the guy who we see with Crabbe and Malfoy at Hogsmeade is there as well. When Malfoy pretends to see a dementor in Hagrid's first class, all four of those actors put hoods on and try to act spooky. B/c of this, I wonder if they were simply making him another one of Malfoy's friends, and he was not a different Goyle.

Still, one wonders where Goyle went...:confused:

[Princess Aurora]

Originally posted by Kristin
Here's something that I thought was strange:
In the book, Lupin talks about how when his friends were with him, he was more himself and they were able to keep him in check. And they had so much fun, etc.

I also wondered about this... but your comment made me remember another part of the film that I really loved. When Lupin is first transforming into the werewolf, Sirius runs to him and is trying to make him keep his head, saying something about "remember what's in this heart!" I can't remember the line exactly, but I thought it was a really moving moment between friends.

[Kristin]

I liked that moment, too. :) (Too bad it didn't work...)

[Princess Aurora]

Something for all the Remus/Lily shippers out there... ;)

From the Baltimore Sun

Kloves says that when he first met Rowling, he told her he intuited that Lily "was quite special" and that James "was complicated." And in the bridge scene, Lupin "illuminates Harry about his mother - the most wonderful thing about her was that she was understanding toward Lupin at a time few were. She saw something special about him when others, including himself, couldn't." Kloves admits, "I think he was in love with her in many ways."

Full article is here (http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/movies/bal-to.kloves04jun04,0,2181479.story?coll=bal-features-headlines). It's quite a good one about Steve Kloves and the crafting of the PoA script.

[Tiger Louie]

Thanks for posting the link to that article, Princess Aurora.

OT, I know, but I reckon that Voldemort killing Lily is what brought Snape back to the good side. I think he was in love with Lily too!

I'd love an explanation about what was with pushing original Goyle into the background! Maybe there was a problem with his voice - not that I noticed the two henchmen doing much talking anyway. There was enough going on around them already!

[Fleurdelacour]

This is coming from a screenwriter who left main parts of the book out of the film :rolleyes:

I'm still not convinced.

[berennluthien]

What everyone must also remember is that Rowling works very closely with Kloves. He may have left a lot out, but the author herself talks with him about what is most important and has said she loved the film and thought they did an amazing job. Of course I am sure she would have loved to see some of the omitted scenes realized on screen, as do we all, but she felt satisfied with it.

I remember in an interview when the first film came out Rowling said that there were times that Kloves had left things out that she deemed significant for later books/films, and so he put them back in- of course she wouldn't give specifics, but the point being, if there was something of great significance left out, Rowling would be saying something about it.

She also said Kloves knows more about what will happen in future books than anyone- including her husband! With this in mind, we know how closely these two are working together to make the film adaptions faithful to the heart of each book.

I missed some scenes too, but I just thought it was significant to look at how Rowling feels about the film. Just my thoughts! :)

[Flockman G5]

Personally, I thought it was pretty bad.

The editing was not very well done at all. The movie seemed to jump from scene to scene quite often, taking away any sense of 'flow' it could've had. No only that, but some computer animated parts of the movie could be identified as they faded into the real parts. For example:

As the Knight Bus is speeding towards Harry shortly after he trips, if you look closely you will notice an exact moment where you can distinguish between the comp. animated Knight Bus and the real Knight Bus. The actual Bus seems to skip forward an inch or two. I'm sure this wasn't a problem with the screen or anything like that because at the same time, the Bus became more defined and the tone the Bus's color changed as well.

That's just an example of the bad editing I noticed. Other than that the movie just didn't flow very well at all and sometimes things happened so fast, it made my head spin.

Another problem I had was with the writing. Here is an example of something right at the beginning that I knew was totally screwed up and about 10 minutes after thinking it, I was proven correct:

Harry was sitting on his bed doing the Lumos charm, so I'm thinking "Okay he's not allowed to do magic outside of school, gj writers. Something's definitely messed up about that part.." So, like I said, about 10 minutes later, Harry says to Fudge (in regards to him blowing his aunt up), "But Minister, I broke the law, I used magic outside school." Well golly gee, Harry, you'd think that'd have crossed your mind while you were doing 6 Lumos charms under your bedsheets.

That's the biggest issue I had with the writing, in terms of a single part of the movie. As for the rest of the movie, the writing was so-so. There was way too much shortened and changed, but that had to be done. Although the writers totally and completely butchered and destroyed the final scene inside the shreaking shack. I swear that happened SO fast I wanted to rip my head off (that and Peter Pettigrew being absolutely hideous looking).

Another issue I had was the casting. The acting given by the new main characters was decent but they were horrible choices for the characters they were playing. Here are the people I'm speaking of:

Remus Lupin - What the hell was up with that mustache? He looked nothing like the Lupin I'd imagined in the books. Keep in mind that I accept that it'd be impossible to satisfy everyone with the cast for characters, but this is just ridiculous.

Sirius Black - Way. Too. Old.

Albus Dumbledore - Just...not Dumbledore. At all. Nothing remotely even close to ANYTHING like Dumbledore.

Peter Pettigrew - The fact that I almost reguritated half a pack of Raisinettes speaks for itself.

So, I've gone over the casting, writing, and editing...

I think I'm going to go eat dinner and talk about the new director when I finish.

[Tiger Louie]

We might not agree with JKR, but if the scripts are close to her vision, and Cuarón has filmed the most significant elements - that's not bad going for bringing the book to film. I think everyone is going to have to brace themselves for a similarly focused (or ruthless, if you like) handling of Goblet.

If it's done with the visual flair of Prisoner of Azkaban, I for one will not be grumbling too much about bits left out. There's still the books for that... and who's to say that in future times there won't be other versions of the books. Wonder when there will be an animated series made of the books? :D

[Kristin]

I don't get why Rowling is so pleased with the films.

After the first movie came out, she gushed about how everything was exactly how she had imagined it. Hmm... interesting. Why then, if she imagined James in a three-piece suit with perfectly neat hair (how is was in the mirror in the movie), did she describe him as having messy hair? :rolleyes:

In the end, those are the kind of changes that really irk me. Changes for time I can understand. Stuff like having Harry's dad with neat hair just makes no sense. I don't see why JKR allows it.

I guess the thing to do is to enjoy the movies separate from the books. Because the movies (no matter how good) will never be as good as the books.

BTW-- Am I alone in prefering the CoS movie to the PoA or PS/SS movies?

[Loralíenasa]

I agree that CoS is better than SS, but not better than PoA.

Then again, none of them have quite lived up to their potential.

[lizz]

I definitly prefer PoA over the other two films. Its just a better film and got the spiirit of the books better IMHO. As Adaptionas PS and CoS were more faithful but didnt work as well as movies and for me didnt really capture the spitis of the books.

Maybe JK is just less of a purist than we are :D Maybe she is just glad they arent worse :devil:

[Fleurdelacour]

Well I thought CoS and PS were a pile of dragon dung in my own opinon... So PoA had to be an inprovement. I hated the first two films.... The only good thing in CoS was Kenneth Brannagh as Gilderoy Lockhart... And I can't think of anything good in PS...

But you are right Kristin... How can JKR be satisfied with the films?

For instance, one of the main themes in the books is prejudice, and they left out Remus's backstory, showing his battle against it with James, Sirius and Peter. It didn't show the bond of friendshop and the wonderful things friends can do for you, as well as the deadly betrayal they can commit too.

Now I'm actualy quite fustrated now now that I've thought about it more...

[berennluthien]

I agree that the PoA did not flush out her idea theme of prejudice relating to Lupin as much---at the end he did discuss how parents would not want "someone like him" teaching their kids, and he said people like him were used to this attitude. But that was the only real moment where this theme came out.

I guess I am just not a purist. I can understand people's misgivings about the films, but I just take them as adaptions of the books. I enjoy the films, but the books are far better to me and I am okay with that. I guess I don't go into the films with high expectations of them living up to the books so to speak. Books just simply do not translate to film perfectly, there needs be a bit of tweeking and editing. As I said- I must not be a purist;)

Also, side note, when Rowling said it looked exactly how she pictured it, she was speaking of the Hogwart's castle and grounds, more of the environments than every little detail. I mean, come on- Harry's eyes aren't even green in at least the first two movies- I didn't notice in the third.

[SnItCh]

I really enjoyed SS and CoS, I think they did an excellent job sticking to the book (for a moive adaptation)! PoA is just a different style than the first two, it wasn't what I was expecting. I really like CoS, but PoA is up there too, not sure which is my favorite.....hmmm I'll have to think about that :)

[Colli]

Thanks for your thoughts, Flockman! Since we already have a thread discussing our opinions on the movie, I'm just going to go ahead and merge this thread with that one. :)

[ChianaWeasley]

I'm pretty pleased with Cuaron's adaptation to rowling's book, I expected it to be far worse. And it very well could have been. I must say, it stuck to the plot more often than in the other two films. :)

Sure there were a few mistakes...the one that bothered me the most was Harry doing the Lumos charm under the bed sheets...grr. But other then that...there were fewer mistakes then the past two films.

I'm going to easily say, this is my favorite of the three current films.

[Kristin]

Originally posted by Flockman G5

Well golly gee, Harry, you'd think that'd have crossed your mind while you were doing 6 Lumos charms under your bedsheets.

I hadn't thought of that. But you're absolutely right.

That is annoying. Gah!

Remus Lupin - What the hell was up with that mustache? He looked nothing like the Lupin I'd imagined in the books. Keep in mind that I accept that it'd be impossible to satisfy everyone with the cast for characters, but this is just ridiculous.

Sirius Black - Way. Too. Old.

Neither Lupin nor Sirius looked how I pictured them (and Sirius was too old) -- but I did really enjoy their acting.

Peter Pettigrew - The fact that I almost reguritated half a pack of Raisinettes speaks for itself.
:rotfl:

[susanna]

What was most annoying to me was Hermione throwing a stone into Hagrid's house and howling to divert Werewoolf-Lupin. I think that this takes from Harry'd realization that it was actually him who summoned the patronus.

There are a lot of other things I did not like. I am not sure whether I like this movie better than CoS, at least I was less disappointed after CoS, but maybe this was because I like the book version of HP3 more than that of HP 2, and because there was such a lot of praise for this movie.

It is a pity that there was not enough time for a long scene in the Shrieking Shack, but a lot of time for a long scene (or rather two)( where they flee from the werewoolf. I see that moviemakers don't like scenes that consist almost completely of talking, no matter how emotional they might be, but love to show off their Special Effects. But I doubt whether this is the only approach to movies.

[Tiger Louie]

If you want to be picky about the ages of the Marauders - then you have to be picky about Snape's age as well!

Age-wise the casting is now all over the place. Alan Rickman is about 2 years off being 60. David Thewlis is early 30's. Timothy Spall and Gary Oldman are in their 40's. All of these are playing characters who are exact age contemporaries with James and Lily Potter who were in their early to mid 20's when Voldemort did his dastardly deed, so should be in their mid to late 30's when we see them!

I'm not entirely a fan of Lupin's 'tache, but facial hair is ageing - and that might be why they gave Thewlis a mustache, so he's not so obviously younger than the others. From the book, I always expected Sirius and Lupin to look older than they were. Both ill-looking; Sirius courtesy of Azkaban, and Lupin courtesy of a life fighting his condition and society's rejection of him.

I thought both Oldman and Thewlis brought the emotions of their characters to life, and the scenes they shared with Harry were genuinely moving. Timothy Spall was so under-used as Wormtail that you didn't really get a feel for how horrible Wormtail is. I had no problem with the makeup either - Scabbers had been losing hair for quite a while, so the bald patches all over his scalp worked for me fine. If anything, I had more quibbles about the rat not looking ill and balding enough :D

I need to go back and check the book for how Harry does his homework. I thought he had been using his wand, but I'd never heard the 'lumos maximus' spell! Just plain old 'lumos'!

[Kristin]

I am picky about Snape's age. I've criticized it before. But I guess I've kind of gotten used to it. And age/appearance aside, it's more important thay they are good actors (which I think they are).

Also, I'd rather have casting be wrong than have the script be wrong. I mean -- in PoA, the total absence of the Marauders' story and the poorly done Shrieking Shack scene bothered me a lot more than the casting of Sirius, Lupin and Snape.

[Mormegil]

Originally posted by Tiger Louie
David Thewlis is early 30's.

He's actually 41 according to IMDB

[Tiger Louie]

Did I tell you I'm not very good at counting :o

Thanks for the correction Mormegil!

In the interests of completeness then (from IMDB) the actors playing the Marauders + Snape:

Alan Rickman - 1946
Gary Oldman - 1958
Timothy Spall - 1957
Adrian Rawlings - 1958 (James Potter)
David Thewlis - 1963
no age given for Geraldine Somerville who plays Lily

So Snape is way out on age, and Thewlis slightly out.

[SnItCh]

Wow....Snape is old :eek:

I think that they all work well together though...maybe I just wansn't paying attention to how old they looked and just assumed they were all about the same age.

[Colli]

I think Alan Rickman's age can be excused given that it's ALAN RICKMAN and he's an insanely awesome actor and made for the part of Snape. :D ( :swoon: )... there's no excuse for David Thewlis (let alone his age!), and the others are pretty close together. :)

Just my observation ;)

[Princess Aurora]

I think PoA is excellently done, and the actors did a wonderful job. As far as Oldman being too... well, Old... he's realistically only a few years older than he should be. And most actors can normally play characters a good deal younger than they are.

I was bothered at first by the appearance of Lupin and Sirius, but their acting soon changed that for me. Which would you rather have, a terrible actor who looks EXACTLY as you pictured, or an actor who looks off but nails the part?

And I don't understand all the complaints about Dumbledore! Harris did a wonderful job as Dumbledore, but he always seemed a bit too solemn for my tastes. Gambon's Dumbledore is a bit more mischievous and personable, though he also commands respect, the way I'd always pictured Dumbledore to be.

As far as the Shrieking Shack scene, I was disappointed, but I understand that a long "explanation" scene might have been a bit worrisome to the creators. I think those scenes sort of lagged in SS and CoS, so it was a legitimate concern this time around.

I think it's important to remember that THESE FILMS ARE NOT THE BOOKS. The books will always be exponentially better than the films. So if you want the books, read the books. If you want someone's best shot at bringing the books to life, see the films. In my opinion, Cuaron rose to this daunting challenge wonderfully.

[Flockman G5]

Oh man, I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet or not, but...

how 'bout those freakin' dementors? They did a terrible job with them. Granted the way they sucked the happiness from people was portrayed with mediocrity, but come on, they don't fly 100 feet in the damn air. They hover above the ground, and they're not very fast. At least not as fast as they were in the movie.

They ruined the dementor for me, completely. Anyone else feel this way?

I mean, it's like:

Actual Dementor~

- 12 feet tall
- hovers/glides
- lifts its face covering to reveal its "mouth"
- huge black cloak

Movie Dementor~

- 8 feet tall (about)
- flies (wtf is that)
- hole for the mouth cut out in the costume
- see-through cloak
- pretty much suck overall (imo)

[Tiger Louie]

Princess Aurora - I couldn't have put it better myself :notworthy

Actors can't always look exactly as the characters they play are described in books - unless or until we get to the horrible day when all films of a fantastical nature are cast with synthespians in them :eek:

I'd rather, have characters brought to life with their inner truth than merely their outer wrappings on screen.

Flockman - I take your point about the divergence between the book and the film dementor. Cuarón had a lot to do with the changes they made. He wanted to go away from the black rider look of Lord of the Rings, and I suspect he felt that putting the dementors too close to the ground would heighten the similarity between dementors and black riders. I thought that the 'look' of the dementors was not how I would have imagined, but I thought the effect of the dementors - how they sucked happiness out of people was done brilliantly. JKR only had to describe Harry's feeling, but Cuarón had to show it because film is a visual medium, and a picture paints a thousand words.

I wouldn't mind betting that a lot of time and discussion went into what they would do with the Shrieking Shack scene. In the book it's a very 'talky' scene, but that wouldn't work in the film (if HP films were 'talky' films, it might be different, but they're not), so they had to go with what they could actually show, physically.

[lithorose]

Actors can't always look exactly as the characters they play are described in books - unless or until we get to the horrible day when all films of a fantastical nature are cast with synthespians in them That would be a horrible day. Fortunately, I don't think it will ever come. The wonderful thing about books is that you can give a brief description, and everyone will come up with a unique image of the character. So there will never be a complete consensus of how a character should look. A picture may be worth a thousand words, but sometimes a sentence is worth 1000 pictures.:D

[Tiger Louie]

Originally posted by lithorose
That would be a horrible day. Fortunately, I don't think it will ever come. The wonderful thing about books is that you can give a brief description, and everyone will come up with a unique image of the character. So there will never be a complete consensus of how a character should look. A picture may be worth a thousand words, but sometimes a sentence is worth 1000 pictures.:D

JKR has come up with the answer to that one, then! All the parts should be played by Boggarts, then we'd all see what we expected to see :LOL:

[Brandir]

I thought the movie was excellent.

The only part that disappointed me was the Stag Patronus scene. I thought the stag should chase the dementors, maybe goring one or two. But just to stand there and have a light emanate from him was not what I pictured in the book.

[lizz]

I´ve seen it again and I noticed some details I absolutly love

One of the buses they knight bus meets is goint to kings cross and in the leaky cauldorn a wizard is reading a brief history of time. Love that :)

[Elwen]

Originally posted by Tiger Louie
JKR has come up with the answer to that one, then! All the parts should be played by Boggarts, then we'd all see what we expected to see :LOL:


Well, actually - would Boggarts in the cast not represent the WORST csasst imaginable? :eek: :D

What a thought :D ;)




Lizz: amazing little detail. Love it :)


Elwen

[Serindë]

Finally, finally got to see PoA. Loved it! I was not prepared for how visually gorgeous it was. Stunning! Hogwarts meets Gormenghast with a side helping of Myst. We loved it! And the music was also unexpectedly excellent. John Williams did not write this one in his sleep!

It's been a year or so since I've read the book, and I'm not passionately invested in the books as literature or fictional universe, so the changes did not bother me. One exception: I agree with those who have said they really should have had some explanation of the Marauders' Map and who Moony et al. were. I had to explain it all to my husband, who is not a HP reader, and he's good at picking up things from context, usually.

Final credits: brilliant!

[Peregrinning Took]

Yes, I agree the music was great. I bought the soundtrack. The best thing is that the tracks actually go in order, unlike on the Chamber of Secrets. *twitch* Here are the CoS track titles:

1. Prologue: Book II And The Escape From The Dursleys
2. Fawkes The Phoenix
3. The Chamber Of Secrets
4. Gilderoy Lockhart
5. The Flying Car
6. Knockturn Alley
7. Introducing Colin
8. The Dueling Club
9. Dobby The House Elf
10. The Spiders
11. Moaning Myrtle
12. Meeting Aragog
13. Fawkes Is Reborn
14. Meeting Tom Riddle
15. Cornish Pixies
16. Polyjuice Potion
17. Cakes For Crabbe And Goyle
18. Dueling The Basilisk
19. Reunion Of Friends
20. Harry's Wondrous World

Honestly, "The Flying Car" after "Gilderoy Lockhart"??? "The Dueling Club" after "Introducing Colin"? "Cornish Pixies" as track 15, "The Chamber of Secrets" as track 3??? ARGH! It annoys me so much that I never listen to this. :mad:

ANYWAY, the credits are fun, too. After a while, the little footprints turn into barefoot-prints, which turn into wolf prints :cool:

[Lembas]

I'm back here after a long absence, at Lizz's behest. You all ought to honor her-she does a lot of HP recruiting over at C-O-E. :) I'm copying and pasting all my thoughts from there over here. As I haven't read every post, I may be repeating a lot of things here, so forgive me.

Well, I finally saw it Saturday and enjoyed it thoroughly. I didn't mind any of the changes. I thought the rolling hillsides and the standing stones and Hagrid's shack being downhill were all fine. Somebody posted at C-O-E about a bird getting destroyed by the Whomping Willow. It actually happened twice, once near the beginning of the film and once near the end. Also loved how the WW would shake off it's leaves, or snow, depending on the season.


I thought the performances were all excellent. I had no problem at all with Rupert Grint. Some have said his performance was weak, but I thought he was just fine. Emma Thompson as Trewlany was great, as was David Thewlis and Gary Oldman. I thought the new Dumbledore was fine, not Richard Harris by any shot, but still good and filled in without any bumps.

I liked the Lupin/Werewolf. I thought it looked pretty cool. The Grim was almost exactly as I imagined it. I especially loved the scene where Harry sees him right before the Knight Bus shows up. One question-how come everything iced over right before he showed. Was it because the Dementors were right on his trail? Interesting.


All the main plot-points were covered and there wasn't a whole lot I missed. The whole Time-Turner
scenario was played out very well. Julie Christie probably had the smallest cameo in the entire film, except for maybe Warwick Davis, who I believe was the small, black-haired professor sitting next to Hagrid at the teacher's table.

Just enjoyed the whole look and feel of the new movie. Very well-done. Gets two thumbs up from me.

EDIT:A few things I forgot. I loved the Shakespeare-singing choir, with their toads adding bass.
Loved the boy's dorm scene, with them all making animal noises based on the candy they ate, culminating in Harry having steam pour from his ears.
Very funny! Snape, coming out of the *ahem* closet, as it were, as the Boggart, wearing Neville's grandmother's clothes and standing around looking confused
was greatness.
Plus the different Boggarts facing everyone, particularly Ron's rollerskate-wearing spider
was all great fun.
Nice to see Draco get some major havoc laid on him by Hermione. He was more wuss than usual in the movie
I, too, noticed Draco's friend changing all of a sudden. Very strange.

Nice to see Richard Griffiths back as Mr. Dursley and his pained "Oh, no, please, not again" looks as Harry dealt with Aunt Marge, was hilarious.

The added scene with Hermione and Harry taking a ride on the Whomping Willow, I thought, was fun. The director took a rather dry scene of the kids following Sirius and Ron under the tree, with the cat pushing a knothole to stop the tree from moving, and made it more fun, IMHO.
Not sure how that would have played on screen as it was in the book.

Also, for those of you who didn't stay for the credits, they roll over a large version of the Marauder's Map, with footprints walking all over the map. At one point, there are bare, human prints that suddenly turn into Padfoot's prints. Nice touch, I thought. And when the credits end, the map folds, with Harry's voice saying "Michief managed!" Then he says "Nox" and the screen goes dark. For those who haven't read the books, "nox" is what they say when they want their wand to go out. I believe they may have even said it in the movie, although I'll have to go a second time to see. Then the WB logo appears and you get a few tiny strains of the Harry Potter Theme played. Cool stuff!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Princess Aurora]

Good to see you around, Lembas! :)

Originally posted by Lembas
For those who haven't read the books, "nox" is what they say when they want their wand to go out. I believe they may have even said it in the movie, although I'll have to go a second time to see.

Yep, Harry says it when he sees Snape coming on the map. I thought it was a nice touch to add it in for book fans. :)

[Monkfish]

Peter Pettigrew appearing fully clothed........Peter Pettigrew changing back and leaving his clothes behind............:confused:

[lizz]

thank you Lembas :) :o

I loved the end credits. Just have the patience and stay to the very end. Its worth it. I almost had to fight to see these, the ushers are so used to everyone leaving immediately after the film they wanted to throw me out :mad:

Anyway one of my favorite scenes is
where Harry sees Pettigrew on the map and goes after him. Extremly well done puzzling and scary :cool: Especially the part where he is frightend of himself in the mirror

[Peregrinning Took]

Originally posted by lizz
Anyway one of my favorite scenes is
where Harry sees Pettigrew on the map and goes after him. Extremly well done puzzling and scary :cool: Especially the part where he is frightend of himself in the mirror

Yes, I liked that too. And when he saw that Snape was coming towards him, and you could see Snape over his shoulder just before he put out his wand! Gave me shivers! Then that old wizard in the painting shouting at Snape..."I told you to put that light out!"

[lizz]

Yes I loved him telling Snape of too. ARE YOU DEAF. And the look Snape gave him :D

[Lembas]

Good to see you, too, PA! So this is where you are all the time! :)

Yes, lizz and PT, that scene you just mentioned was very well done. Given the fact that we know what Pettigrew is ( Scabbers ), the scene shouldn't have been tense, but it certainly was. I did like the fact that even though Harry saw Snape on the map, Snape's appearing over his shoulder like an apparition was very spooky!

Can anybody answer my question above. When Harry is about to encounter the Knight Bus, and Sirius/The Grim shows up, why did everything freeze over? I theorized it was because the Dementors were hot on Sirius' trail and nearby. What do you think?

Speaking of the Knight Bus, I know it's not canon, but I thought the shrunken head was a nice touch-very funny!

Another question: someone said that when Neville puts the Snape/Boggart into his Gran's clothes, that Lupin says something like, "you should have put fangs on him." Did anybody hear this? I certainly didn't. Some people were saying this gives weight to the theory that Snape is a vampire. Anybody?

One thing I did miss was Snape not getting to say that the kids were bewitched by Black and Lupin. That leaves non-readers thinking that Harry got away with attacking a teacher. Then again, since it was Snape, maybe the non-readers didn't mind. ;)

[Flockman G5]

Alright, again I don't know if this was mentioned, but how about when Harry saw himself conjuring the Patronus across the lake in the form of a stag, then when he got to summon the stag himself, it didn't appear. All that appeared was the sheild.

Not only that, but the stag just stood there. Just. Stood. There.

Does that bother anyone else? The intensity of that scene was completely screwed, imo.

Oh yeah, and what's with all the circular 'wipes' on the screen that go to black and then open back up to the regular screen. This isn't Star Wars and it's definitely not the 80's. jeez :|

</extremely dissappointed in this movie>

[Peregrinning Took]

Sirius/The Grim shows up, why did everything freeze over? I theorized it was because the Dementors were hot on Sirius' trail and nearby.

Hmm, I didn't notice this my first two times. I guess I'll just have to go see it again....*sigh* :D
In answer, I don't know. I did notice the light going out, and the swings and teeter-totter and horizontal wheel thing (the name escapes me....I've been away from playgrounds too long) moving, though, is that kind of what you meant?

If your theory is right, though, then I'll want to attack Alfonso. Dementors aren't supposed to go to Little Whinging till the fifth one! :p



Another question:
someone said that when Neville puts the Snape/Boggart into his Gran's clothes, that Lupin says something like, "you should have put fangs on him." Did anybody hear this? I certainly didn't. Some people were saying this gives weight to the theory that Snape is a vampire. Anybody?

Yes, I wondered about people mentioning this too.
He definitely says something after Neville squeaks out "Professor Snape!" and I think he said something like "Aren't we all," but I'm not sure. Then, he walks up to Neville and whispers to him, "Imagine Snape wearing your grandmother's clothes." Neville grins, so it's a bit of a surprise for the other people in the class + in the audience (who haven't seen the trailer :rolleyes: ).

Can someone tell us when exactly Lupin says something about vampire fangs?

[susanna]

Originally posted by Flockman G5
Alright, again I don't know if this was mentioned, but how about when Harry saw himself conjuring the Patronus across the lake in the form of a stag, then when he got to summon the stag himself, it didn't appear. All that appeared was the sheild.

Not only that, but the stag just stood there. Just. Stood. There.

Does that bother anyone else? Yes me. And I was rather disappointed as well.

[Lembas]

PT, thanks for your help. I'm positive that things began to freeze over when Sirius showed up because I was waiting for the Dementors to then show up Although, now that in the movie they can fly, maybe they were *cough*winging it*cough* overhead. ;)

[lizz]

Harry Patronus isnt just light. I´ve loked carefully at this one and the stag is visilbe, not easily, because harry (and we) are blinded by the light and its quite impossible to see if its moving. Well we know its moving because we have seen it before. didnt bother me.

when Harry runs away
it just loked rainy to me. I was wondering what the rain was doing there, but the playground things moving were scary. But I dont thing this was to be meant to indicate Dementors I guess it should just be scary. Maybe it was windy and the things moved because of that :D I agre Dementors wouldnt make any sense, they shouldnt be able to trace Sirius in animal form, or he wouldnt have been able to escape in the first place. :D

Concerning Snape

Lupin defintily says Arent we all

[Peregrinning Took]

I have a question - - why are we all using spoiler tags when "Spoilers!" is in the title of this thread? :confused:

[lizz]

:LOL: We are using them just because we have them I guess :D

[ChianaWeasley]

Good question Took!

By the way...Lycanthrope wouldn't have anything to do with 'UnderWorld' now would it? :p

I'm still puzzled as to why the Dementors flew around like they did. In the book, I pictured them to hover a bit off the ground, but not flinging themselves through the air for pities sake!

[lizz]

Hovering certainly is correct, maybe they thought they would be scarier when they could fly as well.

[Tiger Louie]

Originally posted by Peregrinning Took
I have a question - - why are we all using spoiler tags when "Spoilers!" is in the title of this thread? :confused:

Well, when I started this thread us Brits were the only ones who'd had the film - with still a few days to go before most of everyone else got to see it - call it extra precautions against getting complaints :D

[Peregrinning Took]

Originally posted by ChianaWeasley
By the way...Lycanthrope wouldn't have anything to do with 'UnderWorld' now would it? :p

Nope, sorry, just my current werewolf obsession :p

And OK, Tiger, I got ya. :)

[Flockman G5]

Lizz, the patronous wasn't moving. I mean, I'm sorry , but anyone with eyes could see that.

And I was talking about the 2nd time Harry did it, not the first. The first time it was sitting there clear as day. The 2nd it was nowhere to be found.

[Peregrinning Took]

I managed to make my sister go along with me to see this today! :cool: I have been trying to goad her into seeing it by not telling her some big thing about Lupin, his werewolf thing and to make me shut up ("You wanna know what's wrong with Lupin? Tough! I ain't gonna tell ya! :p") she went with me. But, surprisingly, she was really getting into the movie. She got the werewolf thing when Snape said "Out for a little stroll in the moonlight, Lupin?" combined with the boggart changing into the moon when it saw Lupin so I'm proud of her for that.

She also kept whispering her theories about how Hermione was getting to all her classes. She, for some reason, thought that Sirius Black was pretending to be Hermione, and he was going to some of her classes for her! :eek:

She enjoyed seeing Malfoy get punched - - she saw this in the trailer and said she couldn't wait for it in the movie, and I said, "Well, don't worry, you'll get to see it twice." :devil:

Ah, it's always fun to bring along a HP Newbie to the movie, but, like many others, I had to explain to her afterwards about the Marauder's Map, the Shrieking Shack, and how Sirius escaped from Azkaban. I even told her about the Fidelius Charm. I also showed her all the Marauder's comments to Snape in the book. :D Her response: "Why the bloody hell didn't they include those?!?" Well, that's what I want to know, too. :p

Oh, someone earlier wanted to know if the Fat Lady was hiding behind a hog or a hippo - - it looked like a hippo to me.

[ChianaWeasley]

The only problem with the first two films, is that when you do take a newbie along, they're really confused. Because, the movies make no sense if you haven't read the books yet. If you watch it trying to think as if you haven't read the books, you cant follow anything! It's very confusing really. :D

[Princess Aurora]

Flockman, I know you have an overwhelming hatred for this film, but perhaps you could try to tone down your crusade to rage about everything tiny thing that was wrong? Some of us happened to enjoy it, and although everyone is entitled to their opinion, I doubt lizz appreciates your "anyone with eyes can see that" response to her post.

Anyway, as for the dementors.. I thought we had come to the conclusion that Cuaron was trying to create something different from the Black Riders, which is why the dementors are different from the way they're described in the book? Granted, the Black Riders didn't hover, but it still might've been too similar. When I first saw previews with the dementors flying, I was a little wary about it, but I thought it turned out to be a nice touch, and quite frightening.

[Peregrinning Took]

Originally posted by Flockman G5
Oh yeah, and what's with all the circular 'wipes' on the screen that go to black and then open back up to the regular screen. This isn't Star Wars and it's definitely not the 80's. jeez :|

I actually thought the circular wipes were awesome. Something I haven't seen lately in a movie. I guess it's just Cuaron's style.

And hey, Peter Jackson does the fade to black then open up again quite a bit in (the end of) Return of the King, and he used that to marvelous effect.

And all my previous worries about David Thewlis and Gary Oldman: Gone! :p At first I thought that Thewlis was too old, but being a werewolf would probably make you look a lot older, much more than is hinted in the book.

I still think that Gary Oldman is a bit too (for lack of a better word) small, but his acting really made up for that. I could really feel the spirit of the book shine through when they show the shot of Sirius, Hermione, and Harry on Buckbeak nearish to the end, and I loved his discussion with Harry just before he left.

[ChianaWeasley]

I was very happy with Gary Oldman's performance, though I'm sure Cary Grant could have pulled it off just as nicely. ;)
When I see it again, I'll be looking more for how the filming style changed and what-not.

[Peregrinning Took]

:LOL: I just found this interview with David Thewlis (edited for language):

David Thewlis was relieved to find his life at Hogwarts would continue, writes Craig Mathieson.

At 11.45pm on June 20 2003, David Thewlis decided he had to know if he would live or die. The English actor had been spending his days shooting Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban , the third cinematic installment of JK Rowling's phenomenally successful series. But in fifteen minutes - midnight - London's bookshops would be opening to mark the release of book five, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix . Little was known about the fifth book, except that a cherished wizard that was close to the titular boy wizard would die tragically. Thewlis's character, Professor Lupin, a former companion of Harry Potter's deceased parents and a subsequent friend to their son, was an oft-mentioned candidate. An increasingly toey actor was eventually spurred into action by a comment from his girlfriend.

"She said, 'are you going to get one to find out if you've got a job in two years' time?'" recalls Thewlis. "So I put my coat on, and went out and queued up with the kids and parents, and stood in the corner of the bookshop, and a few pages in, I saw Lupin's name in the present tense and I was like, "yes!". The guy in the counter was looking at me, but I didn't care, and I flicked to the back to see if I was still in it. And the guy says, 'are you checking to see who dies?'. He was most indignant. I'm like, 'No'. And he goes 'Yes you are!'. Then I saw more Lupin near the end and I walked out of there a happy man."

Sitting in a Yarra-side hotel suite about a year later, a packet of cigarettes and a steady stream of Red Bull helping him avoid jet-lag crash, Thewlis is more than happy to laugh at a common fear among members of his craft. But there was also a matter of thespian etiquette to deal with afterwards: Lupin may have avoided the chop, but Sirius Black hadn't, and on the screen, that part was being played by Thewlis's good friend, Gary Oldman.

"He actually came around the next morning, because we lived near each other at the time, and he said, 'Have you seen the new book? We've got a lot of work to do, mate.' He was quite happy, and I didn't know how to break it to him. So I said, 'Have you actually read it yet, Gaz?' 'No, just flicked through it.' A few days later I'm in makeup and he comes in and sits down and goes, 'Have you heard the news?' 'What's that, Gaz?' 'It's terrible f****** news' 'What is it?' 'You know how everyone is talking about who dies in book five? It's f****** me! This woman puts the poor b****** in prison for 12 years, brings him back for a few scenes, and then she kills him!'"

I've been wondering what Gary Oldman's reaction was! :LOL:

[Tiger Louie]

That's really very funny PT :LOL:

I am just wondering, however, if there are folks here who haven't yet read OotP, and <whispers> don't yet know who dies?

I'll just drop back to the Patronus which has been exercising a few people. I will admit to being surprised at the static nature of the stag initially, but when it's moving around at speed, how clearly do you suppose you'd see a stag anyway? Add to that the fact that Moony Wormtail Padfoot and Prongs are never explained, and you can see (or at least I can) that in fact majoring in on the stag would have been wholly redundant. Putting a shot in does at least leave the door open for any future explanation, and is a nice homage to James for those who do know the book.

[Princess Aurora]

:LOL: That's awesome, PT! Thanks for posting it. :D

I saw it for the second time (FINALLY!) last night, and watched the final Patronus scene closely. The "second" time, the stag isn't fully visible as it was the "first" time, but you can actually see the beginnings of one coming out of Harry's wand. :)

I actually thought it was kind of cool how they did it... with delirious-Harry seeing the stag just perched majestically on the opposite bank, and then a giant explosion of Patronus goodness beating back the dementors.

[ChianaWeasley]

That's probably how I would react once I found out my character was going to be killed off, couldn't have put it better actually. LOL. The poor guy, but I bet Thewlis got a good laugh out of it.

[Flockman G5]

Originally posted by Princess Aurora
Flockman, I know you have an overwhelming hatred for this film, but perhaps you could try to tone down your crusade to rage about everything tiny thing that was wrong? Some of us happened to enjoy it, and although everyone is entitled to their opinion, I doubt lizz appreciates your "anyone with eyes can see that" response to her post.

I was just clarifying something to lizz, if she has a problem with what I said, she'll tell me and I'll apologize and delete the message.

I don't appreciate you saying that I'm on a "crusade to rage" because that's entirely not true. =(


Originally posted by Peregrinning Took
I actually thought the circular wipes were awesome. Something I haven't seen lately in a movie. I guess it's just Cuaron's style.

And hey, Peter Jackson does the fade to black then open up again quite a bit in (the end of) Return of the King, and he used that to marvelous effect.

And all my previous worries about David Thewlis and Gary Oldman: Gone! :p At first I thought that Thewlis was too old, but being a werewolf would probably make you look a lot older, much more than is hinted in the book.

I still think that Gary Oldman is a bit too (for lack of a better word) small, but his acting really made up for that. I could really feel the spirit of the book shine through when they show the shot of Sirius, Hermione, and Harry on Buckbeak nearish to the end, and I loved his discussion with Harry just before he left.

Yeah but those are fades.

I'm talking about wipes, which aren't used very often in modern-day films. Fades, on the other hand, are used quite often.

[Tiger Louie]

I decided to delete this post. I never intended it to sound as if I was singling out anyone. I am sorry that it appeared that way.

Tiger

[Colli]

Everyone play nice :)

[Little Miss]

Originally posted by Tiger Louie
That applies equally to everyone who posts on any thread, and it's not aimed exclusively at you Flockman.


completely off topic and i dont bloody care if i get deleted and banned for this but to be quite honest if anybody else had said that or if anyone else, maybe a respected long-standing member, maybe someone like xaz or cedric or someone, had severely disliked the PoA film and voiced their opinions thusly people would have agreed to disagree wheras the way it looks is JUST because it was flockman his opinions need to be picked apart and taken offence at (wheras with anyone else it would have been shrugged off as good natured teasing, no matter how it was intended). it irritates me beyond all measure when a discussion starts going to !!!! because someone sees a post from flockman and decides to do one in reply completely and agressively disagreeing with whatever he says, or jumping to the defence of a poster he had replied to doing his usual, and in mine and probably at least one other person's view, civil polite questioning of the reasons behind their opinion.

anywhere else this behaviour would be the start of a pleasant adult discussion where conflicting opinions were given and the reasoning behind them thought out and presented and all opinions would be respected and nobody would be offended just because someone disagrees. the "anyone with eyes could see that" comment didnt look to me like a direct insult towards the previous poster and yet people jump to her defence like he's just said he spent the night with her mother and she was rubbish. instead here we get people v flockman with everyone else looking on in disgust that their discussion has suddenly turned into a "he said that" "she said that back" "well he started it" (enter moderator) "play nice kiddies" kind of thing.

its ridiculous and pathetic and plain childish and this messageboard is really not supposed to be any of them. and until you can all realise that i am staging a one woman protest.

consider me in self-imposed exile till you all grow up.

*moderator note* I started to delete this just for the sake of ending the argument and getting the thread back on topic, but I changed my mind. Little Miss is right you guys, Flockman is ok here and the comments in reply to his opinions are out of line.

We're all Harry Potter fans here, have a little faith and respect for each other. :) If any of you have an argument with me, PM me, but let's return this thread back to it's intended topic please.

:hug:

[ChianaWeasley]

My question is, why didn't Lupin's Patronus take form of an animal, it was just as if it were a sonic wave or something.

????

[Deagol's Bane]

I saw it a few weeks ago. I don't remember a lot of the details, but my general impression was...

As a movie, I think it is better than the first two. Better acting, better characterization, visuals, etc.

I was in fact pleasantly surprised by the kid's acting. Good job!

The Dementors were pretty good. I liked most of the scenes with the kids better than the scenes with the adults.

I am really trying to remember what I liked more than not, but I can't think of anything else. I just didn't enjoy it that much. I think it is kind of slow, and I was a little bit bored almost throughout all of it.

Despite thinking that this movie was better done, I think that I would say that it's my least fave of the three. I don't remember being quite so bored during the first two.

I continue to think that these books are very difficult, if not impossible, to translate to film while maintaining the entertainment value of the books.

I should probably see it again, though I hesitate to pay for it. Maybe I just wasn't in a movie-mood.

[Bellatrix_Lestrange]

What do people think of Genevieve Gaunt as Pansy? She's a lovely little actress, but isn't Pansy supposed to be pug-faced?

[Colli]

Hmm... good point Bellatrix! Although I have no idea who the actress is ;)

[Xyla]

Exactly, I thought she was too pretty to be Pansy. I've seen a lot of fan art of pansy that show her being all pretty too, I guess because she and Draco are semi-dating so they figure she MUST be cute, but I always imagined her as being this hatefully ugly, vile little girl.
Not that I'm saying that whatever I imagine MUST be right and everyone else is wrong ;) But I always got the impression that Rowling was trying to say she wasn't pretty either.

Oh and yes, I had huge issues with 'Demonic Greyhound!Lupin" from the start... what were they thinking?
The original text said the students were learning how to tell a Werewolf from a real wolf, well NO problems there! One looks like a wolf, the other looks like demonic greyhound... :rolleyes:

I'm also so upset they left out the Marauder map/ WMPP explanation. It would have taken all of 30 seconds...

My first impression of the film was one of real disappointment, but I did enjoy it a lot more the second time I saw it. THere are some really beautiful scenes in the movie too, I guess I was just shocked at what got cut.

[Telchar II]

I'm sort of amazed that people are disappointed.

I agree that some things were not as I had wished them -- the stag is never explained, nor are MWPP, as folks have mentioned -- but think of all the absolutely amazing touches -- the laugh-out-loud moments and the thoughtful, careful bits -- that Cuaron packed into this movie!

LOL MOMENTS:

-- every single bit of Emma Thompson's Trelawney -- "are you in the Beyond?" just kills me -- I'd forgotten she's so good at slapstick -- almost stumbling over that little table is a perfect introduction

-- the singing toads

-- Dudley during the blow-up scene (perhaps a little overdone, but still)

-- the Fat Lady attempting to sing -- too hilarious -- cracked me up, not just the glass

-- Ron waking up with the spiders making him tap dance

-- Dumbledore's delay tactics when they're trying to rescue Beaky: "Well, it's a very long name." Not to mention "What strawberries?" I'm going to start using this line when I'm completely befuddled, like Fudge. Not canon, but still fabulous.

-- Snape: "Lupin. Out for a walk in the moonlight?" Superb. Just kills me. Every time. Same with "Page 394."

-- when the Time Turner is working in the hospital wing, notice that someone is being removed from a full-body bandage!

THOUGHTFUL, CAREFUL BITS:

a lot of these involve Lupin; I basically think Thewlis walked away with the movie

-- the scene with Lupin and Harry on the bridge is enough to make me cry: it is so well acted, and so delicately done: Harry looking forward into the future, and Lupin looking back into the past, recalling Lily, whom he obviously adored

-- Lupin's look of shock when Harry tells him he's seen Pettigrew on the map: "But that's not possible."

-- the Patronus lessons -- good acting, but also -- were those miniature suns floating around Lupin's office (perhaps meant as counters to the moon)? -- notice how golden everything was in his office, as if to avoid any hint of silvery moonlight?


OTHER GOOD STUFF:

-- a quidditch match that was actually interesting (and did not have Harry sitting receiving the adulation of the crowd for a full 30 seconds, as Columbus did)

-- a truly beautiful Buckbeak flying scene

-- more Hogwarts architecture and grounds

[ChianaWeasley]

Perhaps Pansy is one of those girls that can be pretty, but she's ugly 99% of the time, because she's always got a smug or disgusted look on her face. Like, she has her eyebrows permanently knitted together in an angry look.

[Flockman G5]

completely off topic and i dont bloody care if i get deleted and banned for this but to be quite honest if anybody else had said that or if anyone else, maybe a respected long-standing member, maybe someone like xaz or cedric or someone, had severely disliked the PoA film and voiced their opinions thusly people would have agreed to disagree wheras the way it looks is JUST because it was flockman his opinions need to be picked apart and taken offence at (wheras with anyone else it would have been shrugged off as good natured teasing, no matter how it was intended). it irritates me beyond all measure when a discussion starts going to !!!! because someone sees a post from flockman and decides to do one in reply completely and agressively disagreeing with whatever he says, or jumping to the defence of a poster he had replied to doing his usual, and in mine and probably at least one other person's view, civil polite questioning of the reasons behind their opinion.


I'd just like to point out that I would've said this myself but resisted temptation for fear of being banned. I don't think that's right.

<3 Little Miss :hug:

ON TOPIC: It seems like most of you are just 'accepting' what's given to you rather than wanting more from these movies' potentials. Do you know what I mean? This is just how I see it, correct me if I'm wrong.

Like the dementors for example, most of you just accepted (eventually) that the change from the book doesn't really matter. I'm just wondering if it's because you truly enjoy the change, or if it's because you think that wanting more is pointless and you should just be satisfied with what's given.

???

[Telchar II]

Another superb thing about this movie was that it actually had themes -- themes that corresponded superbly to issues in the book. I thought there were three major themes established by the movie as a movie -- that is, with only minimal help from the script.

TIME

Consider how many timepieces and images for time are in this film:
-- the cuckoo clock (the blowup scene -- time established as a theme good and early, but humorously)
-- I think there's a clock when Fudge meets Harry at the Leaky Cauldron
-- the massive pendulum in the entranceway to Hogwarts
-- the massive clock above it
-- the bell in that clock
-- the executioner (a metaphor for time, or for death)
-- the clock in the hospital wing
-- the Time Turner itself, of course
-- you hear ticking quite often during the Time Turner scene, and the music reinforces it at times
-- some of the standing stones appear to form a sundial
-- the armillary spheres in Lupin's office (astronomical time)

Then consider how wonderfully Cuaron uses the time images. Particularly the big clock. When the Time Turner sequence starts, we go out through the clock (emphasizing the wheels within wheels of Time in JKR's world). When the Time Turner sequence ends, we go back through the big clock, emphasizing the return to "normal" time.

Time, of course, is so essential to PoA's plot that it makes sense for Cuaron to hit us over the head with this theme.


ILLUSION AND REALITY

Another biggie. Think of how many times Cuaron tests the border between illusion and reality, between the appearance and the actual:

-- Harry looking at his face in the train window
-- the boggart scene (all about illusion and reality, really) starts and ends with the mirror on the armoire
-- Harry sees himself in the mirror in the Pettigrew-in-the-hallway scene
-- Harry sees himself in the lake, while Buckbeak drags his claw along the surface of the water

In small ways like this, Cuaron is constantly asking the questions: What is real? What is illusion? How can we tell?

There are other, more subtle things that raise the same questions: the marauders' map, the ghosts "breaking" the window as they ride through, the portraits, the curious incident of the dog in the Knight-bus time (is it the wind? or something else?). Anything with the Invisibility Cloak, of course.

Illusion and reality, and knowing the difference between them, are also fundamental to PoA.


LIGHT AND DARKNESS

I only really noticed this the second time I saw the movie, when we got to the scene where Dumbledore starts speechifying about light and dark and starts playing with the candle flame. That line is non-canon, and it left me totally puzzled the first time: Why did Cuaron/Kloves put this in? The second time, I realized that they were emphasizing a theme that had been set up in the movie's very first frame. Consider:

-- Harry in the dark, saying "lumos maxima" (a mixture of Latin and Greek for "greatest light" I think), and light resulting, and then darkness, and then light from the door when Mr. Dursley shows up -- it happens not once, but twice -- perhaps this explanation is a defense to those upset by Harry using this spell outside of school -- artistic license

-- Harry at the end of the credits saying "nox" (Latin for "night") -- it's as if the story itself is light, or day, and then darkness follows after it ends -- quite extraordinary

-- the electric lights going out in the kitchen, and then in the street

-- the lights going out on the train when the Dementors show up

-- the Patronus, of course, is a big light-versus-darkness point

-- Lupin's amazing vertebrae-candles get snuffed out by the boggart, and then he lights them again

-- that Pettigrew-Snape-Lupin scene in the hallway, with everyone generating little balls of light that strangely do not seem to illuminate very much (and Snape turning out the lights as he walks down the corridor at the end)

-- Snape closing the shutters on the DADA classroom for his slide show, another light-and-darkness moment

Light and darkness are less directly relevant to PoA in particular and more just a metaphor for the entire JKR universe, and for the struggle between good and evil that she portrays.



I know I'm missing examples of each theme. and I'll check 'em out again when I see the movie again. But anything else? Or any other big themes?

[edit]
You know, if you put these three together, you might get a metaphor for movies: light and darkness, illusion and reality, and time. This is most clearly hinted at during the slide-show scene, when light and darkness put patterns up on the screen. (They're Wizarding slides; why don't they move? Because that would make the point too obviously.)

It also hits home at the beginning and the end. Harry says "lumos" and the movie starts. Harry says "nox" and the movie ends. Was it real? Was it illusion? And how can we tell?

Quite a stunner, really. I'm beginning to think that HPPoA, unlikely though it may seem, is one of those works of art that is about its own art. Like Vermeer's painting of the painter painting, or Velazquez's Las Meninas (sp?). Or some great theater: Hamlet ("The play's the thing."), Noises Off.

[Peregrinning Took]

Originally posted by Flockman G5
ON TOPIC: It seems like most of you are just 'accepting' what's given to you rather than wanting more from these movies' potentials. Do you know what I mean? This is just how I see it, correct me if I'm wrong.

Like the dementors for example, most of you just accepted (eventually) that the change from the book doesn't really matter. I'm just wondering if it's because you truly enjoy the change, or if it's because you think that wanting more is pointless and you should just be satisfied with what's given.

???

I didn't particurarly enjoy the change in the dementors. Flying cloth-colored basketballs, as someone so eloquently put it. ;) But so much other stuff in the movies - - in particular David Thewlis (yes, he did steal the show) - - made up for the dementors not being how I imagined them. It's just another person's interpretation. And JKR was involved in the making of the movie, they wouldn't have changed anything drastic unless she let them (as far as I know - - WHY would she let them take out MPPW??? WHY???).

I think that this movie could have been truer to the book had Christopher Columbus directed it. I kind of wish that he had directed it instead of Cuaron, just because of the amount of things that were left out. As for 'accepting' this movie, yes, I have accepted it. It does not live up to the book's potential, and I highly doubt that anything short of a four-hour-long movie could live up to the book. I don't see the point in rejecting it, because this is a wonderful movie.

And Flockman - - please don't think that I'm trying to "attack" you because of your opinion. You just have a fairly controversial opinion, and you seem like a person who is good at arguing. ;)

And I do agree that if it had been someone else, we might not have gotten into a lengthy argument such as this. I notice that no one has replied to Xyla's post, either.

Sorry we're all so superficial.

Telchar: :notworthy I had been wondering about the thing with Dumbledore and the candle - - it makes much more sense now. Reading your post has made me want to go see the movie for a fourth time :D

[Telchar II]

While I understand that we lost a lot in translating book PoA to the screen, I think we gained an enormous amount too. This movie, unlike the first two, is truly exciting as a movie -- it's a puzzle in its own way, it foreshadows and hints cinematically. It's extraodinarily artful. I really am grateful for that.

If Columbus had directed, we would have gotten more like the book but more boring too.

[edit]
Thanks, PT. :o It's because I too was wondering about that little moment -- why spend precious time on Dumbledore seemingly acting a little bit bizarre -- that I finally realized what they were up to there. (I think.) But I was puzzled there for a bit.

BTW, I still think Dumbledore's line -- the one he speaks as he snuffs out the candle and lights it again -- could have been better written. Can't recall what it is exactly, but it still strikes me as a clunker.

[further edit]
When you come up with a theory about what Cuaron is up to, you realize why he chose to spend time on the things he emphasized, and why he cut stuff that didn't matter so much to the themes.

[and still further]
If this is indeed a movie about movie-making, as I suggest in my edit above, then Cuaron's agenda was not exactly to translate HP3 faithfully to the screen. It was also to make a major artistic statement while doing so. And how subtly he did it!

[Flockman G5]

I think your (Telchar's) views on what Cauron was implying in certain parts of the movie are a bit extreme.

You could take any little detail and give it some big dramatic meaningful purpose but that doesn't make this movie good. It adds to the experience for certain people, but it doesn't do the movie better as an entirety.

I just think those little things you point out are only boosting your personal liking of the movie because of the way you interpret things.

[Xyla]

And I do agree that if it had been someone else, we might not have gotten into a lengthy argument such as this. I notice that no one has replied to Xyla's post, either
Ahh, but then I'm not in the habit of throwing personal insults, veiled or otherwise, into my arguments.

wanting more is pointless and you should just be satisfied with what's given
At the end of the day, what will continued griping achieve? They're not going to remake the movies for us...
I think people have come to terms with the dementors, because of all the changes, it was one that was not as hard to swallow in the end. The dementors still worked, they were still scary and they achieved their purpose.

I just couldn't understand breaks from canon that weren't really necessary. Like leaving out the MWPP explanation, or even little things like not having Crookshanks stop the whomping willow, I mean really, Crookshanks barely had a role in the movie as it was, why rob him of one of his canon moments, just to throw in a silly CG scene?

[Flockman G5]

I didn't mean that you have to complain about the change, it just seems that not too many appear to dislike anything. Rather, they just accept it and/or like it.

[ChianaWeasley]

I was rather unhappy and unimpressed with the animatronic rat that replaced 'Scabbers' for nearly the entire film. Did that bother anyone else?

And the flying Dementors...which doesn't really make sense in the first place...but anyway, I was happy with them, until TaDah! someone made them start flying.

[Telchar II]

Flockman said:

I think your (Telchar's) views on what Cauron was implying in certain parts of the movie are a bit extreme.

You could take any little detail and give it some big dramatic meaningful purpose but that doesn't make this movie good. It adds to the experience for certain people, but it doesn't do the movie better as an entirety.

I just think those little things you point out are only boosting your personal liking of the movie because of the way you interpret things.

Guilty as charged. :D

The things I think Cuaron did are subtle, but intentional (imho). And I think they were intended to structure the movie in a specific way, to make it deeper and more thought-provoking, to enrich it. Certainly when I look at the movie with these themes in mind, I like it better. In fact, I find it very exciting.

The only thing possibly wrong with that is if I'm reading into the movie more than Cuaron put into it -- and even this may not be a bad thing. If Cuaron stumbled into thematic complexity without knowing what he was doing, why should we complain? As long as the movie is susceptible to thematic interpretation along the lines that I've been discussing -- and I believe it is, highly so -- then interpreting it is rewarding. At least to me. :)

[Princess Aurora]

Originally posted by Flockman G5
I didn't mean that you have to complain about the change, it just seems that not too many appear to dislike anything. Rather, they just accept it and/or like it.

And this is a bad thing?

Flockman, I'm sorry that you were incredibly victimized by my remarks last time, but I just don't understand your antagonism toward this movie, the same way you can't seem to understand anyone else's positive opinion of it.

I liked this film. Sure, there were a couple things that I wasn't crazy about, namely the absence of Marauder's Map explanation. But overall, I thought it was a great film. And call me crazy, but I actually liked the dementors! I thought they were creepy and menacing. I thought Cuaron did a great job, and I'm not merely "accepting" the film because that's all we've been given.

As for "wanting more from the movies' potential," I recognize that making these films is a huge, insurmountable task, for even the most veteran filmmaker. The films will NEVER live up to everyone's adoration of the books. It is just not humanly possible. So I accept that, and I have great respect and appreciation for the work that Cuaron has done.

In my opinion, Cuaron is miles better than Columbus in directing these films. The first two were fine, and I enjoy them, but they tended to drag in areas that were unnecessary to focus on, and the length of the film was very conspicuous as the film wore on. My impression of PoA, however, is that it focuses in on the important "slow" parts, such as Harry's conversations with Lupin, but it keeps the story going in general.

And Telchar, thanks for your analyses. I really enjoyed them, as I did your analysis of the FOTR soundtrack at Imladris years ago. :D

[lizz]

I really really liked this movie. I am surprised myself how unpurisitc I am there, but the changes and omisions simply dont bother me. Whats missing, Marauders etc I know and I just fill in for myself and I´m content with that.
but what really makes me love this film is the casual way magic is used. Its just a normal magical world. thats something I truly missed in the first two. And PoA is much more interesting as a film, the visuals are really great sometimes like harry looking out of the window in the Hogwarts express, the whole scene Harry seeing Pettigrew on the map. The whole time theme. all those clocks and time references :swoon: Amazing stuff.
I liked the Dementors too. Very creepy. they are supposed to be creepy, and Cuaron pulled that of and therefore I dont care if they fly instead of just hover.

[Flockman G5]

Originally posted by Princess Aurora
And this is a bad thing?

Flockman, I'm sorry that you were incredibly victimized by my remarks last time, but I just don't understand your antagonism toward this movie, the same way you can't seem to understand anyone else's positive opinion of it.

I understand everyone's positive opinion of it fine, and it's not like I loathe this movie or anything. I'm trying to figure out who here really genuinely enjoyed this movie and who is just accepting that it can't be remade and turning that into a likeness rather than admitting to disliking the movie.

In other words, who here is being too nice to admit they really did have problems with this movie. I'm just curious.

[Princess Aurora]

Originally posted by Flockman G5
it's not like I loathe this movie or anything.

Lol, well you could've fooled me! ;)

I'm trying to figure out who here really genuinely enjoyed this movie and who is just accepting that it can't be remade and turning that into a likeness rather than admitting to disliking the movie.

Well, I think by now, after weeks of discussion, everyone's true opinions are pretty clear. I wouldn't think that someone here would be "too nice" to point out things they didn't like, as you can find many examples of people expressing their disappointment over various things throughout the thread.

As I see it, the people who liked it, liked it, and they aren't just pretending to like it. Those who were originally disappointed or on the fence about it recognize Cuaron's effort, but will still never love the film. And those who hated it will continue to hate it, no matter what.

Telchar, I was re-reading your analysis of themes, and I wanted to applaud you again. :D I think Time is definitely a recognizable theme here, no matter what. I also liked your idea of the Illusion/Reality theme. I had noticed while watching it that we see Harry looking at his reflection in several scenes, and I had wondered about the significance of that. Whether it's illusion/reality or something else - personal discovery, perhaps? - I think there's significance there. And finally, the Light/Dark juxtaposition... I think that's gotta be a huge theme for any true "Good vs. Evil" story. It's big in LOTR as well (one of my favorite scenes in FOTR is the Flight to the Ford, with the 9 black horses and the one white horse... hello, classic Good vs. Evil imagery! But I digress...)

As for the "Art commenting on art" theory, that's gonna take a bit more convincing for me, but I like your other ideas.

And this is out of nowhere, but I just saw it again the other day, and this is now my favorite line...

"But sir! It's quidditch tomorrow!"
"Well then, I suggest you take extra caution... loss of limb will not excuse you from this assignment! Page three hundred and ninety-four!"

:LOL: The intensity with which he says "Page three hundred and ninety-four" whilst leering over Harry is just delicious. :D

[ChianaWeasley]

Oh sureee, loss of limb wont excuse you from the assignment. BUT bloody Malfoy got others to do his for him when he was scratched, and making a big deal over it. Git.

Shows how Snapey likes to operate
:rolleyes:

[Telchar II]

Princess Aurora said:
As for the "Art commenting on art" theory, that's gonna take a bit more convincing for me.Well, goodness knows I've never had that effect on people before. ;)

But seriously, let us know what you think after you see it again. (I'm assuming you haven't in the past couple of days, and that you intend to. On DVD at least!) I'll admit that I may be stretching it with the art-commenting-on-art theory, but if you were Cuaron, a talented director used to having your own way with complex and emotional stories, what would you do with a story like HP, with the main plot and characters well established in the minds of hundreds of millions? I think you would try to jazz HP3 up in subtle ways -- in the ways I've tried to describe.

And thanks, Princess Aurora, for your kind words about the bits of my post you did agree with. :D

I'm going to see it again this weekend (on IMAX -- yippee!) to see if I missed anything. I'll check re personal discovery instead of illusion/reality -- the thing is, while a lot of the reflections are Harry gazing at himself, and thus would support a personal-discovery theme, some of them are not. (In the boggart episode, for example, it's the whole class mirrrored in the wardrobe, not just Harry. And Cuaron uses that mirror image as a framing device, just as he does with the giant clock framing the Time-Turner scene. Amazing, really.) But I'll take a look and consider what you say. Perhaps Peregrinning Took can weigh in too, after the fourth viewing.

BTW, Madame la Princesse, one of the reviewers had the same reaction to Snape's line as you did. Who else, to paraphrase this reviewer, could make "Turn to page 394" sound like a death threat? And of course that's not far from what Snape intends to do by teaching the students about werewolves (and thus about Lupin).

The other one: "Out for a walk... in the moonlight." Kills me. If I were alone, rather than in a movie theater, I'd be shrieking with laughter, every time.

And fancy you remembering my FOTR soundtrack post. :o That was fun to write, that was.

Flockman: I genuinely enjoyed it. And the more I see it, the more I genuinely enjoy it. What fun! :cool:

[PhoenixSong1031]

I haven't been around these forums in a really long time! :o I've seen the movie twice and loved it (even with its minor faults). I'm really enjoying all the theories and speculation about the movie - but before I add my two cents later I really wanted to show this to you all:

Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban in Fifteen Minutes - link removed! :o Let me know if you want it so I can PM it to you instead!

It's a parody of PoA written by a fan, and since I enjoyed it so much I thought that you all might as well. ;)

[Rapunzel]

Well, here's my two-pence, for what it's worth: all in all I really enjoyed the movie. It was, in a word, magical - something that I don't think either of the other two managed to achieve.

But, inevitably, I have some quibbles - why oh why didn't they explain how Lupin knew how to work the marauders map? It would only have taken a couple of minutes to explain, and the plot would have made much more sense (They could have explained why, for example, he knew to come to the shrieking shack - 'I was looking at the marauders map, and I saw ...' As it is he just sort of ... turns up, for no reason).

My other big quibble is with Lupin himself - I just don't think they quite got his personality right. In my mind, Lupin is defined by his reserve, restraint, subtelty - a small smile here, a slight frown there etc etc. It seemed to me that in the movie he was a bit too ... oh, how do I explain it ... forthright ... forceful ... overbearing. Say, for example, playing music in the classroom -'Look at me, I'm nice, because I play music in my lessons! I am a fun teacher!' He also seemed a bit too free with his emotions - like when talking about Lily. Oh, and he shouted at Harry. I didn't like that. I've always though of Lupin as someone who, although he didn't always express himself in any sort of obvious way ... it was clear that there were things unsaid, behind his eyes, in his mind. He didn't need to play music; or say openly how he felt; or shout; to express himself. I guess thats hard to get across in a movie, but, oh, I don't know, I just didnt think he was quite right.

Anyway, I liked nearly everything else! Perhaps my quibbles with Lupin come from the fact that he's my favourite character, and I love him to bits in the book. (Oh, and please dont get me wrong, I think David Thewlis is a great actor. I just didnt like the way they did the character).

Anyway, like I said, I did like almost everything else! (Anyone else actually prefer the new Dumbledore to the old one? No disrespect to Richard Harris of course.)

[Princess Aurora]

Originally posted by Telchar II
I'm going to see it again this weekend (on IMAX -- yippee!)
Oooh, I'm so jealous! We saw it on the IMAX for the midnight showing, and it really is the way Harry Potter was meant to be seen. You'll love it!
I'll check re personal discovery instead of illusion/reality -- the thing is, while a lot of the reflections are Harry gazing at himself, and thus would support a personal-discovery theme, some of them are not. (In the boggart episode, for example, it's the whole class mirrrored in the wardrobe, not just Harry. And Cuaron uses that mirror image as a framing device, just as he does with the giant clock framing the Time-Turner scene. Amazing, really.)
Ah, but perhaps it's more than just Harry's personal discovery? The boggart, by illustrating each person's greatest fear, could be a sort of representation of discovering what you can face and cope with. Plus, the kids are teenagers now, which is a huge time of figuring yourself out. But I do see what you mean about the mirrors and illusion/reality... some interesting possibilities.

Or perhaps I'm just totally reaching. :D This is starting to remind me of my high school World Lit class, where we had to analyze everything that could be even remotely considered symbolic. ;)
Who else, to paraphrase this reviewer, could make "Turn to page 394" sound like a death threat?
:LOL: Oh, it's so true. Just further confirmation that Alan Rickman is PERFECT for this part (now, if we just wait a moment, I'm sure Colli will be along in a second ;))... He just drips with contempt and maliciousness (is that a word?). Mwaha, and the way he just bursts into the classroom and starts slamming all the windows shut, you can see why Neville is so terrified of him! :D
And fancy you remembering my FOTR soundtrack post. :o That was fun to write, that was.
Yep! It was actually one of the first things I'd read on the board, and I remember reading it while listening to the soundtrack so I could hear some of the stuff you'd pointed out! :o :D



Rapunzel, I quite liked the new Dumbledore, although I know many people did not. I hesitate to say he's better than Richard Harris was, because Harris was wonderful as well. But Michael Gambon seemed to play a more mischievous Dumbledore, while still commanding respect. And that's the way I've always thought him to be.

[Peregrinning Took]

I'm going to see if for the 4th time later this afternoon. :D

You know, when I first saw it in the theater, when Snape said "Loss of limb will not excuse. Page three-hundred and ninety four!" I thought he was quoting the page or something! :eek: But then it clicked a second later....:o

:LOL: Thanks, PhoenixSong.


STAN: This 'ere newspaper says-

KNIGHT BUS: ZOOM!

STAN: -that Sirius Black is a psycho killer escaped from-

KNIGHT BUS: VEER!

STAN: -Azkaban, the terrible prison for wizards, and is dangerous and-

KNIGHT BUS: DEATH-DEFY!

STAN: -on the loose and one of You-Know-Who's most faithful supporters and probably out looking for a boy wizard to kill!

HARRY [peeling his face off the window]: You done with the trip to the Department of Back Story?

STAN: Yeah, I think so. NEXT STOP LEAKY CAULDRON!

:lol: I'm not sure if that link is exactly PG or under, but it is funny! :)


MRS. WEASLEY [with Scabbers]: OMG RON! DON'T FORGET YOUR PLOT POINT!
GROOVY NEW DUMBLEDORE: Many thanks to the Richard Harris Memorial Toad Choir for that lovely performance. Greetings, salutations, and what up: I will be your new Dumbledore this year, which I'm sure will be fabulous despite the presence of a few hundred undernourished ringwraiths on the premises. Hagrid will be taking over the Care of Magical Creatures class despite having no teaching credentials whatsoever, and also, we have a new teacher, Professor Lupin, to fill our cursed Defense of the Dark Arts spot. Good luck making it through the year alive, Remus!
PARVATI: *changes a snake into a GIANT SCARY CLOWN JACK-IN-THE BOX*
SNAPE: I want two rolls of parchment on WEREWOLVES by tomorrow, including what WEREWOLVES look like, how to detect WEREWOLVES in the faculty of a British boarding school for wizards, and the definition of the Latin word 'lupus.' CLASS DISMISSED!

All right, I'm sorry, I'll stop now...

[PhoenixSong1031]

Glad you liked it Peregrinning Took! ;) I love the Knight Bus scene as well. I'll just put up a few of my favorites real quick .....

DEMENTOR: SHIIIIIRE…. BAAAAAGGINS….
What can I say? It's my inner LotR geekiness showing again... :D

DRACO: OUTTA MY WAY, PLEBE, IT’S MY TURN ON THE HORSYBIRD!

BUCKBEAK: *administers a two-hoof beatdown*

DRACO: *cries for Daddy*

HAGRID: Lord. Tell Madam Pomfrey to pull out the smelling salts, I gotta bear Miss Malfoy here off to the fainting couch.

DRACO: Faster, plebe! I do believe I have the vapors!
This one was just too perfect! 'Miss Malfoy' .... :LOL:

MADAME ROSMERTA: Back story. So, Minerva, what’s up with Harry and Sirius Black?

MCGONAGALL: Well, you’ll never believe it, but Sirius Black is actually Harry’s godfather because he was the Potters’ best friend but he totally sold them out to You-Know-Who and now he wants to kill Harry.

MADAME ROSMERTA: It couldn’t possibly have anything to do with the mysterious nine-fingered death of Peter Pettigrew, could it?

MCGONAGALL: Shpfff, of course not.
This one is a personal favorite because the main thing that bothered me about this movie is how they took no time explaining the important background information .... Nothing about Pettigrew, nothing about what Sirius did to deserve Azkaban, nothing about the Marauder's Map for goodness sake, the whole sequence in the shrieking shack taking about 3 minutes of the movie when it took up quite a large portion of the end of the book ... I mean the people who've never read the books must've been like :confused: :confused: during the Pettigrew thing because they barely explained it.
Either way, I thought the parody was dead on and loved it because of that. ;)

HERMIONE: I would give you a comforting hug, but… y’know, the cooties.

HARRY: S’aright. I have to practice my teenage rage for the next two movies anyway.
I thought this was rather amusing since really Harry isn't really supposed to start his everyone-hates-me-so-I'll-just-go-off-on-a-rage-against-the-world phase until the fifth book.

I also loved the ones that Peregrinning Took quoted. :k

Now back to my reivew ... :rolleyes:
Well, as a whole I loved the movie. I thought that the scenery (even changed) was still gorgeous, the actors/actresses were wonderful (as always), and the plot (most of it) was actually in the movie!!

Some comments on the Actors/Actresses:
Daniel - Still makes the perfect Harry but needs to work on his acting just a tad more....
Rupert - Wonderful! He had some great lines and the scene in the boys' dormitory was priceless.
Emma - Brilliant!!! She has matured so much since the second movie and it really shows. Love when she got to punch Draco. :D (Sorry Draco lovers, I enjoy his additions to the books/movies but he's not one of my favorites.)
Speaking of... Tom - Loved his acting but I wasn't too happy with his new haircut. I wouldn't mind it on Tom, but for Draco I would've prefered his longer white/blonde hair. Ah well, director's perrogative I suppose.
Michael Gambon - I know we can't have Richard Harris back, and his shoes are rather big to fill, but to me he seemed less playful than Richard Harris. Gambon was mischievous like Dumbledore should be, but he was missing that twinkle behind his eyes that Harris had. If we give him time though I'm sure that he'll turn into a wonderful Dumbledore - it's just difficult to have two different people playing the part and not think of one being able to do it better than the other.
Robbie Coltrane - Not enough Hagrid in this movie for me ... and what little was there wasn't really the Hagrid I have come to know and love. Well, all I can hope is that there will be more of in the next movie.
Alan Rickman - I love this man!!! Not enough of Snape for me though. When I saw SS/PS the first time, I knew that Rickman was perfect for the part of Snape. Who else make "Turn to page 394" sound threatening or have his robes billow spectacularly? ;)
Maggie Smith - Wonderful as always! I loved her new robes (I want! I want!!), but, like Rickman, she wasn't in the movie enough for me. For such wonderful actors/actresses one would think they'd be in the film more.
Gary Oldman - LOVED him as Sirius! Even though he wasn't exactly what I had pictured, he played the part to perfection and was really a wonderful addition to the cast.
David Thewlis - I loved this character in the book, and even though David Thewlis is a good actor, I didn't like his portrayal of Lupin. He wasn't the Moony that I loved from the books - Rapunzel gave a dead on description of why I didn't enjoy Thewlis' Lupin.

That's enough for now I think, and I want to thank you all for of your brilliant reviews and theories on the movie. :notworthy

~PhoenixSong

Edit: Have fun at your fourth viewing of the movie Peregrinning! With any luck I'll get a few more viewings in myself before PoA leaves theatres.
By the way ... I was just wondering whether anyone went to either opening day/opening weekend showings and dressed up for them? (Not like I did that ... Phoenix slinks away whistling innocently)

[Princess Aurora]

Yep, that link is gonna need to be taken down, because of the language... but I did find it quite hilarious. :D

MR. WEASLEY: Sirius Black is specifically coming to kill you. Promise me that whatever terrible and infuriating things anyone says, you won’t go after him.

HARRY: Should I ask follow-up questions about this?

MR. WEASLEY: Not unless you want to get down to the bottom of the mystery in the first fifteen minutes of the movie.

HARRY: Oh, okay.
HARRY: Where’s Professor Lupin?

SNAPE: MOONING AROUND somewhere, I’m sure. In other news, today’s lesson is on WEREWOLVES. Can anyone enlighten the audience on the difference between a WEREWOLF and an animagus?

And my personal favorite -
RON: And I hear they're actually going to let us play Quidditch in the next movie, too!

HARRY: WOOT!

PEOPLE WHO READ GOBLET OF FIRE: *facepalm*

:D

[PhoenixSong1031]

I took it down ... I figured it wasn't quite PG but thought that it wouldn't do much harm if I only had it up for a short while. Even with the language, it was quite good. :D
Glad you like it too Princess Aurora. ;)

I enjoy the continuation the Hermione/Snape conversation where she answers the question correctly and he then proceeds to take 5,000 points from Gryffindor, which then causes Hermione to go: "I—but the—adda—wibba—" :LOL:

The facepalm was quite funny ... although I must admit that I honestly did that while in the theatre, but for two reasons. The first was because they completely screwed up the Firebolt plot line in the story, and then because Ron said that Harry would be able to use it the next year in Quidditch. *sigh* Speaking of Quidditch ... why was Oliver Wood not in the movie - at all?! :eek:

[Princess Aurora]

Originally posted by PhoenixSong1031
Speaking of Quidditch ... why was Oliver Wood not in the movie - at all?! :eek:
Ooh yes, I found out that he wasn't going to be beforehand, so that softened the blow a little, but not enough. :( ;) But that reminds me of another good line -
Apparently the Only Quidditch Game Played at Hogwarts This Year

THE RAIN: *is torrential*

HARRY’S GOGGLES: *are sporty*

OLIVER WOOD: *is not there*

:D

[Telchar II]

PhoenixSong, I read the whole thing last night and was cackling with laughter from the get-go. Very well done!

[ChianaWeasley]

:LOL:

A good friend sent me that the day after the movie came out, I was going to post it...but being the forgetful muggle that i am I forgot where it was. :o :p But behold! You now have it for your veiwing pleasure! :D

[Peregrinning Took]

I was also sad we didn't get to see Cedric and Cho! The Hufflepuff Seeker.....I was afraid that he was Cedric, but it turns out he's not.

4th viewing was fun. :D I've almost met my RotK record - 5 - already. :angel:

I noticed that Harry's scar kept going back and forth from the right and the left of his forehead. It's usually on the left (his right), right? In the boggart scene, after Lupin "stops" Harry from facing the boggart, he looks at the wardrobe and it's on the right (his left). :confused: You'd think that Daniel Radcliffe would have noticed that when they were putting on the scar...

Oh, another quasi-theme I noticed: Circles; which has to do with time. The dementors literally circle Harry and Sirius; the clock pendulum; Harry's glasses; and, as Flockman so kindly pointed out, all the circle wipes. I'm almost certain that this was completely unintentional, but it's spiffy anyway.

And Phoenix - - I went to a midnight show dressed as Hermione. My friend went as Snape! :eek: :D

[lizz]

I´ve noticed harry scar only once, but that is really something everybody in the production should notice.
Really the poor boy not only has a scar, but its also a wandering scar :p

good point about the circles, I´ve noticed time and mirrors, but missed the cirlces :)

[Bellatrix_Lestrange]

FWIW, I think the makeup people put the scar on consistently, but sometimes the director/editor reverses the film.

[PhoenixSong1031]

True, that's like how some of the scars and cuts in LotR change spots on the actors. I think it's because the film strip has to get flipped for one reason or another....

I like the circle theory as well. ;)

I dressed up too Peregrinning Took, that's why I asked. :D I didn't actually dress up as a character from the books.... But I wore an elegant black long-sleeved wrap dress, then I threw a "robe" of black mesh with rose patterns on top that made the outfit complete and looked like long dress robes. The outfit was made complete with stockings and some lovely black heels. ;) Needless to say I had fun and didn't care that people were looking at me rather strangely. :D

~Phoenix

[Peregrinning Took]

Oooh, that sounds awesome. :cool:

Me, I went for more of a thrift-store variety outfit. I had a black Grim Reaper robe, which I cut down the middle so it was more like a long jacket. I put a sticker of the Gryffindor Crest on cardboard, then pinned it onto the robe. I also wore a white shirt and a grey sweater underneath, with a gold-colored tie, and a pair of jeans. Kind of mixing Alfonso's costumes and Columbus's costumes. :D

[Telchar II]

Little things from viewing number 5:

The time theme is established (although very quietly) even earlier than the cuckoo clock -- we see a little clock/barometer right by the Dursleys' front door while Harry is trying to get Vernon to sign the Hogsmeade permission slip. We also see a watch on Marge's wrist when she leans down to let her dog slop up some hooch.

As I suspected, there is indeed a clock in the scene with Fudge at the Leaky Cauldron. It's a big grandfather clock, in the corner behind Fudge and to the right.

Also, after Harry hear's Trelawney's prophecy, we see him going down that amazing circular stairwell. Note that we see this from above. Between him moving clockwise down the stairs, and his shoes going tap tap tap in regular time, it's as if he is the second hand of an immense clock. Harry moves from about the 5-second mark to the 15-second mark.

Agreed about the circles -- all those round towers, the round offices, Hargrid's round hut. (In fact, Hagrid's hut, with two interlocking circular forms, is a smaller version of Dumbledore's office, which has three.) The crystal balls are another, as are the moon and the sun-like orbs that float around Lupin's office (along with the stationary planets and spheres there).

You know, there's a strong suggestion, from all these circles that have to do with time, of the cycles of time, rather than its linear quality. (An hourglass, for example, would have a different effect -- such as that in the Wizard of Oz movie.)

More regarding the illusion/reality theme:

(1) Note that in the Dursley house, there are a lot of images of people (and animals) whom we later see "live." For instance, we see a drawing of Hedwig on Harry's closet door (the one he pushed Dobby behind last time). But Hedwig herself is on the dresser. Which is illusion, which reality? (Not that this is a hard question to answer, but for a split second the movie does ask us to determine which Hedwig is a representation of which.)

(2) There are many pictures of Dudley in the living and dining rooms, so we see his image before we see him in the flesh. In the flesh, of course, he is even less interesting than in his photographs, because he is fixated on the TV. Which is illusion, which reality?

(3) There are actually _three_ TV sets in the Dursley-dinner scene. (OK -- two if you don't count the TV Dudley is watching when Marge arrives.) Dudley pays more attention to them than to his aunt arriving or taking wing. It's clear which is more important in his mind.

(4) Harry hears Marge and the Dursleys disparage his parents. Then he goes upstairs to see the picture of them dancing in apparent bliss. Which is illusion, which reality? Note that Dudley was just watching some dancing on the TVs downstairs.

(5) There are mirrors throughout Mr. Weasley's explanation speech in the Leaky Cauldron. There's one on the wall right by the door, and then there is one behind Mr. Weasley at the end of the scene and there are two (I think) behind Harry when he says "Why would I look for someone who's trying to kill me?"

(6) The fact that Harry's scar is on the "wrong" side of his head in the boggart scene suggests that we are viewing the entire scene through the mirror on the armoire. And indeed the opening and the closing of this scene suggest this.

(7) Ron's reactions to Hermione's mysterious arrivals are topped only by his reaction in the hospital wing to the disappearance and mysterious arrival of both Hermione and Harry. That really throws him for a loop. Are the arriving Hermione and Harry illusion or reality? We get a sense of the "ghastly" consequences that can follow from somebody being seen in the midst of time travel.

Some random thoughts:

Twice I thought I saw Harry's glasses taking on a rosy hue. Not sure whether that was meaningful.

Newt Scamander is on the Marauders' Map. How is that possible? Illusion or reality? :D

What is the first noise we hear in the movie, other than the faint glowing noise (if there is such a thing) that Harry's lumos spell makes? Get this -- we hear a dog bark.

Conclusion: Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban is one of the most tautly constructed and thematically rich movies I have ever seen.

And by the way, if I were to dress up as anyone, it would be Fudge. I _want_ that cloak.

[ChianaWeasley]

Alright, so I'm not the only one who noticed the amazing moving scar...phew....reminds me of the mole in 'Robin Hood:Men in Tights' :LOL:

I really didn't notice the circle theme...but I really need to see it again...

Chiana sits down in theatre with light up pen and clip board to jot down notes

[Telchar II]

I take it back. I think Hagrid's hut is two interlocking polygons, not circles.

(I need one of those clipboards too.)

[Colli]

lol Chiana that's what I was thinking too!